MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

AC, DC, amps, volts and kilowatt. It's all discussed in here
eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 01:18

Before you post try Endless-sphere.com ... I thought I would give here ago.

I was hoping that someone around Fremantle, Perth Western Australia, would be interested in helping me MODIFY an RAZOR Pocket Mod Scooter for my 11yr old daughter and me.

She has also got a RAZOR DIRT QUAD with a 24v, 350-watt motor, Speed 22 km/h, last year from the family, as she kept complaining about how slow her scooter was.
This worked for about 6 mths, but now shes complaining about how slow that is.

This sounds like she complains a lot, but i guess she gets used to the power, and like any kid wants to go faster.
She has show great interest in riding off road, and also that its electric power.

We did think about converting a larger motor quad ages ago but got rid of it, as she did not like the noise etc.

I was thinking maybe 700w motor ... but maybe there a way to beefing up the existing motor ... or will it just burn out ... but willing to take the risk.
I would like to keep it under $200.

............

RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER
model 15130662

Batteries 24v - 2 x 12v 7ah
Motor (250W Chain Driven)
Speed 15kmh (SURE !!!! more like 10kms now its old)

Page 10 gives you an idea of how its assembled and shows there is plenty of room for bigger motor and batteries
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/A1ASasO04WS.pdf

This is about 5 years old, and batteries are about stuffed.


Last edited by eFluffer on Tue, 28 Oct 2014, 15:19, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 02:07


eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 02:17

Bits I have are a couple of chargers ...

36v Li-ion Charger LangRiZhongTian Technology LD3620-01
input AC100V - 240v - 1.8A MAX 50-60Hz
output 42.0V - 1.8A
Plug into 3 flat pin type (not round pin plug)

DIMTRONICS
Sealed Lead Acid Battery Charger
model SBC 24-4
input 240v 50Hz 0.8A
output 28V D.C. 4A
mobility scooter plug type

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 02:20

Adverse Effects
I was thinking maybe 700w motor or bigger as the
350w is same as one she has ... and too slow for her
Last edited by eFluffer on Tue, 28 Oct 2014, 15:21, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 02:35

350 watts can lift a ton easly but slowly
350 watts can move a needle at the speed of sound

350 watts geared correctly can go as fast as a kid wants to go or as slow as a parent wants it to go

its all about the gearing

if it has a 250 watt on it now you can change the gearing a bit and make it faster

if your kid can put a back pack on with 10Kg in it and still ride around at about the same speed then you have enough watts there its just not geared correctly

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 03:01

The rear wheel is quite small 12.5 inch
and the cog on this is large about 5.5 inch.

Image
Last edited by eFluffer on Tue, 28 Oct 2014, 16:42, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 03:22

what RPM can the motor do
how many teeth on the motor cog
how many teeth on the rear wheel

say 1000RPM (just a number not real)
say 10 teeth (just a number not real)
say 100 teeth (just a number not real)

100 / 10 = 10:1 ratio or 1/10th

1/10th of 1000RPM is 100 RPM at the back wheel (not allowing for losses and drag)

now if you change the teeth

say 1000RPM (just a number not real)
say 10 teeth (just a number not real)
say 50 teeth (just a number not real)

50 / 10 = 5:1 ratio or 1/5th

1/5th of 1000RPM is 200 RPM at the back wheel (not allowing for losses and drag)

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 03:25

by the way i have seen a 1000watt ebike doing 60+ with a fully grown man on it and you want to put 700 watts on that little thing?

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 03:42

I found this
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/mot ... ratio.html

The motor sprocket has 11 teeth and the wheel sprocket has 80 teeth.
would I get more speed by putting a smaller sprocket in the rear. ?

If so I could use something like this:
65 Tooth Rear Wheel Sprocket for #25 Chain With Rear Wheel Freewheel Mechanism

Item # SPR-2565
Image
Last edited by eFluffer on Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 05:43, edited 1 time in total.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 06:50

I got good results with the oset trials bike by converting to hobbyking lithium polymer batteries and upping it from 24v (600w) to 36v. No idea if the same thing would help with the scooter, but relatively easy to do. At worst the lithium batteries would catch fire and explode, probably less of a problem on a scooter than a motorbike.

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/top ... irections/

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 17:37

I would like it to go faster, but also to be able to go up hill faster as well.
I guess the concern I have is ...
If I change to a less teeth on a cog.
It will go faster, but will it struggle up hill ?

How faster will changing the batteries to Li-ion.?
Will it burn out the engine and I need to change the controller as well ?
Last edited by eFluffer on Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 18:55

like i said

dose the dike go up hill at about the same speed if you add say 10Kg over the kid?

if so you can gear it down more

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 19:13

OK that's what you mean.

Answer NO, bigger the kid, slower it goes.

Also the reason I think the batteries may be on way out is besides old, it now really struggles up hill (approx 25 degrees slope).

It had always struggled anyway, even when new.

So I assume if I put 10kg extra weight on it, ... it would just struggle more.

User avatar
Bluefang
Groupie
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed, 13 May 2009, 22:37
Real Name: Derek Hohmann
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Bluefang » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 00:35

Batteries are the problem, not the motor or controller unless they are getting really hot. Change out the batteries for lipo from Hobby king. Double check the inside of the controller that it can handle it, it should say otherwise look at the capacitors and see what voltage they are rated too then up the voltage to 36V and it will go a extra 50% faster if the batteries were new. I would expect it will do over 20km/h.

200w is enough power to move a adult on a bike at ~30km/h on a flat...the scooter should move the kid very easily.

4x5S of Zippy 20C rate lipo would be more then enough, 2 in series and 2 in parallel. get a small RC balance charger and away you go. Or you can wire it up with a small BMS, but search on ES for that.
www.facebook.com/ausemoto
Building Electric vehicles to be enjoyed and give people a EV grin.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 00:46

before you go out and do that do some research on Lipo's and how to SAFELY charge , use , store them and what happens when you dont

not trying to stop you just trying to get you to do it safely

User avatar
Bluefang
Groupie
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed, 13 May 2009, 22:37
Real Name: Derek Hohmann
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Bluefang » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 00:59

I will sum up some simple safety advice for modern lipo.

Buy your lipo from Hobby king unless you really know what you are doing.
Look after your lipo, store them in a non conductive container with no sharp edges. Most lipo failures have happened because a metal edge wore its way into the lipo and shorted the cells.
Charge it with a balance charger or using a proper BMS system, NEVER bulk charge.
Store away from flammable items if you are really worried about the lipo.

By the way i noticed you started with 7ah of lead. You will be perfectly fine with using only a pair of 5S lipo batteries, this will make it much easier for charging and alot less likely for you to make mistakes. Charge them one at a time on a 5 or 6S RC balance charger. Thousands of kids use lipo on RC planes etc, they are now a insanely amount safer then a number of years ago. You would actively have to try and kill the lipo for them to cause a problem.
www.facebook.com/ausemoto
Building Electric vehicles to be enjoyed and give people a EV grin.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 01:44

never discharge them to much or you end up with a paper weight
never over charge them or you will have a fire (no realy cheap charges)
dont charge them fully and not use them for a few days week month

Bluefang i do love your work but when your dealing with someone that has no real idea about lipo's you have to be a bit more careful

i learned that the hard way a mate of mine that i introduced to the RC hobby lost part of his garage when the elcheepo charger id bought over charged the 2 6S 4000mah and made them catch on fire all because i didnt stress enough to him about Lipo's and how dangerous they can be


i have a $57 charger here that i have deliberately destroyed so it carnt be used because it overcharges cell 2 and cell 4 to 4.7V and cell 1 3.6 and cell 3 to 3.7 it all most ignited the first battery i put on it
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Wed, 29 Oct 2014, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Richo » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 20:58

I'm about 30min from Freo.
My suggestion would be to change the controller and batteries to 36V.
It will put extra wear on the motor.
But by the time the motor blows she will be onto another fad anyway.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

eFluffer
Noobie
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon, 09 Sep 2013, 21:03
Real Name: Franc
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by eFluffer » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 22:49

This post seems to have taken on a new life about Li-ion Batteries and Chargers. I was hoping by posting this to concentrate on how to ... MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER.

Don't get me wrong ... its all good knowledge, but its a bit scary for a Noobie ... and think I might just stick to Gel Deep Cycle Batteries.

NOW i have done a bit more to find out information that may help with the Modifying the actual Razor Scooter.

        Rear wheel sprocket has 80 teeth
        250w Motor sprocket has 11 teeth
        RPM between 2500 and 2700 RPM
        Requires 2 x 12V Lead Acid batteries

Using the Caculator below
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/mot ... ratio.html


The Calculator above came up with 19.06 mph or 30.6741 kmph

Even the Manual says ...
The Razor Bella Pocket Mod Scooter has a top speed of up to 15 mph (24.140kph)
with the ability to travel up to 10 miles (16.093km) on a single charge,
or up to 30 minutes of continuous use.

Now I can tell you for sure that this scooter is not doing this speed.
and almost comes to a stop going up a 25 degree slope.


Image
Last edited by eFluffer on Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by mikedufty » Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 23:22

If its too slow and can't go uphill, changing the gearing won't help.
Lead acid batteries often go bad very quickly, so it's likely replacing the batteries will get it a lot closer to the claimed performance.
About $60 will get you a 5000mAh 24v 6 cell lithium battery from hobbyking, which should perform better than the lead acid as well as being much lighter. Decent electronic chargers to balance charge it safely are only about $30.
If you want more performance, increasing voltage will often work if the designers have played it safe. If they haven't allowed any margin for safety you risk burning out the motor or overloading the controller. Then you get to try controller and motor upgrades.
The 600w oset seems to cope well with going from 24v to 36v, I tried it only after hearing other people had done it with no issues.

I previously tried 12V on a cheap kids 6v four wheeler. That made it a heap more fun, but the motor burned out after about 15 minutes.

I'd guess a razor scooter is somewhere between those two in build quality.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Fri, 31 Oct 2014, 05:50

1 X Electric Bike Scooter 24V350W Motor Engine Generator Unite Motor Brushed MY1016

1 X YIYUN Electric Controller 24V500W Electric Scooter Water proof YK31C Brushed

2 X Turnigy nano-tech 6000mah 6S 25~50C Lipo Pack (AUS Warehouse) if you log in to hobby king then click this link you will get it cheaper

OR

4 X ZIPPY Flightmax 3000mAh 6S1P 20C (AUS Warehouse) if you log in to hobby king then click this link you will get it cheaper

TURNIGY MEGA 400W V2 Lithium Polymer Battery Charger (Version 2) (AU Warehouse) if you log in to hobby king then click this link you will get it cheaper

then you have to work out a way to connect in parallel all the battery's and balance leads for charging

that is about the best way and close to the cheepest to boost that bike effectively

or you could just get the first 2 items and replace the 2 lead acid battery's you have in there with the same

[EDIT] if you use the Lipos you have to learn how to look after them including a low voltage alarm buzzer built in to the bike to stop you over discharging them and killing them
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Adverse Effects » Fri, 31 Oct 2014, 08:10

just so you can get an idea of the sort of thing that can happen

this is 1/4 of the first battery i list above

[tube]http://youtu.be/6M5ftkN9PtY[/tube]

[tube]http://youtu.be/k9mcNvOGKtI[/tube]
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Thu, 30 Oct 2014, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.

mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 31 Oct 2014, 17:59

My lipos have gone well on the bike, but I went too far sticking them in an electric lawnmower where they are running full power for a prolonged period. Got to the point last weekend where one of the cells has burst, but no smoke or fire.
Some people use them in fireproof boxes or bags for extra safety (my burst one is sitting in a bag now until I get around to disposing of it properly).

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Richo » Fri, 31 Oct 2014, 19:58

Going faster increases power requirements exponentially.
Voltage = Speed
Current = acceleration
Power = voltage x current

Changing the sprocket will give little benefit as the overall power of your system hasn't changed to take into account the increased power requirements from the extra speed.

You can still use lead acid batteries.
There are probably cheap controllers on ebay that will do the job.
I think it's achievable for under $200.

Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER

Post by Richo » Fri, 31 Oct 2014, 19:59

eFluffer wrote: I was hoping by posting this to concentrate on how to ... MODIFY a RAZOR BELLA POCKET MOD SCOOTER.


Yep but I guess that the answer is not what you expected.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way! Blasphemy is a swear word. Magnetic North is a south Pole.

Post Reply