adaptive magnetic flux array motor

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adaptive magnetic flux array motor

Post by jamie85063 » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 00:36

I just found out about this new motor the AMFA or is it new?
Click this link http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... 2E001BCD49

Any thoughts i would be interested to here them.

Cheers Jamie
I can't get the link to work so copied the article here.

Aussie electric motor reinvention boosts efficiency and power, shrinks size and cost
14 March 2013
By IAN PORTER and HAITHAM RAZAGUI
A MELBOURNE-based start-up will soon start trials of a radical new motor in Australia’s only electric Commodore.

Smaller, lighter and less expensive than conventional units, the motor will power one of EV Engineering’s fleet of electrified Holden Commodores that feature a battery pack under the bonnet in place of a petrol engine.

Developing 150kW of power and a truck-like 2800Nm of torque (compared with 145kW/400Nm for the current EVE Commodore) the new motor is also claimed to be up to 30 per cent more efficient and 36kg lighter, contributing to increased battery range.

Rather than requiring a heavily modified rear sub-frame as with the current EVE Commodore, the more compact motor is hoped to fit inside a standard Holden rear differential, enabling the standard sub-frame to be retained.

The motor’s more compact size is largely due to the fact its design allows it to dispense of a separate transmission and inverter electronics.

Developed by Victorian electronic engineer David Jahshan and his company Axiflux, the adaptive magnetic flux array motor (AMFA) uses switching components that were prohibitively expensive until the popularity of plasma televisions brought the price down.

EV Engineering – formed by a group of local car parts makers and service providers – last year converted seven Holden Commodores to electric power to demonstrate the feasibility of electric-powered large cars.

Following the successful completion of the construction phase, the seven Commodores are now out on the road in the hands of interested parties, but EV Engineering has had to be scaled back in size.

The AMFA project has arrived in time to dispel some of the uncertainty over EVE’s future following the announcement last month that major partner, EV charging infrastructure provider and battery swap technology pioneer Better Place, was having its Australian funding cut.

EVE will help with the development of the AMFA motor by using one of its Commodores as a mobile test bed.

In a system similar in concept to cylinder deactivation technology on internal combustion engines, the new motor has 23 embedded micro-controllers that automatically adjust power consumption to the immediate needs of the driver and the vehicle.

Mr Jahshan said his new motor comprises 23 little segments, each controlled by its own micro-processor.

This would have been prohibitively expensive a few years ago, but the cost of the processors has fallen from $50 each to around $2 now.

“As I was designing the motor, whenever I ran into a problem, I would just shove in another micro-processor with the idea that I would come back to that problem later,” Jahshan told GoAuto at the Cars of Tomorrow conference.

“When I completed the motor, it became apparent the multiple processors were the key to the design,” he said.

Introducing the motor at the conference, EVE chief engineer Tim Olding explained that the motor was different in another aspect, as all the poles and magnets were on the same axis as the rotor.

“It’s not three phase like other electric motors, it’s 23 phase, which means the system can selectively turn off, or shut down, parts of the motor.”

This means the power efficiency of the motor at part load can be as high as 95 per cent, whereas other electric motors sink as low as 70 per cent efficiency under part load.

Mr Olding said there were other advantages. Having the microprocessors embedded in the motor eliminated the need for a separate inverter, greatly easing the packaging problem.

In addition, the characteristics of the motor are such that the car designer can do away with a gearbox and incorporate the differential into the motor unit.

He said the drivetrain of the EVE Commodores weighed 97kg while a drivetrain with the new motor is expected to weigh around 60kg.

Mr Jahshan, who is a visiting fellow in the electrical and electronic engineering department at Melbourne University, said he started on the project four years ago after he and his cousin decided to make their own electric car.

Then he realised he needed a new electric motor that was more efficient than the motors on the market at the time.

“How hard can it be to design an electric motor?” he asked himself in the time-honoured mode of inventors.

Since his cousin pulled out the project, Mr Jahshan has been pushing the project along for the last three years and has won support from a range of financial backers.

His company, Axiflux, is currently taking out patents around the world, partly because he believes he motor will be relatively easy to build.

“”It will use only bog-standard production techniques, well established metallurgy and normal materials,” he said.

Mr Jahshan has completed two small-scale prototypes and is presently building the first full-scale, 150kW motor for bench testing.

It is expected to be running in a month and in an EVE Commodore by year end.

Having access to the EVE Commodore will give the motor a fast track to market compared with having to build test vehicles from scratch.

Last edited by jamie85063 on Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 13:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 20:41

I love it when I think of something and then some time later someone has done it already. Image
I hope it works.

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Post by Richo » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 20:45

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... 2E001BCD49

At the end of the day it's a hub motor.
GoAuto wrote:Developing 150kW of power and a truck-like 2800Nm of torque (compared with 145kW/400Nm for the current EVE Commodore)
2800Nm is about the same as the petrol car with a gearbox and diff.

Looks nice - looks expensive.

Please put the motor on the web for everone to buy and play with Image
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by Tritium_James » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 20:50

I don't see how 'shutting down parts of the motor' really improves the part-load efficiency. The iron losses and eddy-current losses are still there in the windings no matter what. You don't save anything in the inverter part either, since the bulk of the switching losses are proportional to current, so turning off half the sections and doubling the current in the others gives you the same overall switching loss, and worse I²R loss. I'm not seeing the attraction...

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Post by Johny » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 20:52

Sounds too good to be true.

Edit: Me thinks they may be comparing pre-differential torque (regular motor) with post-differential torque (new motor).
Last edited by Johny on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Richo » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 21:00

I lost interest when I saw a hub motor - regardless if it worked or not.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by unheardofinstruments » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 21:05

I suspect the extra efficiency comes from driving fewer coils closer to max amperage rather than reduced amperage on all the coils thus more efficiently, + magnetic/eddy losses are minimised in axial flux designs, especially if the rotor and stator are made from non metallic parts like carbon fiber.
Nice to see somebody local making a powerful axial motor, something that has been prohibitive because only a few specialist makers were doing it and charging like wounded bulls for them. Axel Borgs book details using three controllers, one for each phase, this is just a small step in the same direction, borrowing controllers from plasma TV's suddenly makes it affordable to do so.

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Post by Richo » Fri, 15 Mar 2013, 23:58

So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by PlanB » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 15:07

So are the little outrigger pods where the multiple micros live?

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Post by BigMouse » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 15:40

I imagine they're on the boards located in the middle of the motor (the third photo as you scroll down. They said in the goauto article there was one per phase, right? Far easier to fit 23 microcontrollers (and related hardware/pcb/etc) on those boards inside the motor than in the "pods".

No idea what the pods would be for though.

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Post by Richo » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 20:53

They are the coils supposedly.
Obviously to adjust the phase inductance on the fly.
You can see them next to the picture of the PCB's with bad hand soldering Image
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Post by Johny » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 21:04

Too many entrepreneurs and not enough R&D guys for my liking. The site is just a bit too slick. It's a real surprize that there is no "Invest here" button.
Of course I've been wrong before...
Last edited by Johny on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 10:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by BigMouse » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 22:12

Richo wrote: They are the coils supposedly.
Obviously to adjust the phase inductance on the fly.
You can see them next to the picture of the PCB's with bad hand soldering Image


I think the "pods" we're referring to are the external ones (second picture). The internal ones (third picture) appear to be different. If the external ones are indeed inductance-adjustment coils which can be switched in and out of the circuit, that's pretty clever too.

I noticed the solder quality too, but chalked it up to its prototype status.

I'm curious to see how they go with the Commodore EV trials. Quite exciting if it works. They say that the motors will be "lighter and cheaper" in addition to having the controller integrated. I imagine it still uses rare-earth magnets (a big turn-off for me). Regardless, the question remains whether it will be available for sale to us, or if it'll be licensed to OEMs and we'll be stuck waiting for them to show up in junk yards.
Last edited by BigMouse on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bga » Mon, 18 Mar 2013, 23:33

Bit odd that they're talking trialling in a car and still using rendered images of the motor. Also, no brakes on the hub motor and the mount looks like something Michelin? proposed some time back!

Richo makes the point that the motor they are showing is a hub motor, but the trial is on a commodore where they are definitely talking a diff replacement. Anything else on a heavy commodore would be silly. I wonder if they are eliminating the hypoid (5% losses) too?

It's hard to see how splitting the controller into so many modules could possibly reduce cost of manufacture, nor does it reduce the amount of copper in the system significantly. Their microprocessor price argument is a furphy, the real costs are in the interface and power semiconductors.

I am disinclined to believe anything that these guys say.

Perhaps we are being saved from ourselves by the lack of an 'invest here' button?
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Post by Richo » Tue, 19 Mar 2013, 04:15

Yes I was talking about the external pods - How did you think they would fit fat coils in an axial flux motor Image
They just pictured them next to the drive PCB's ie the guts

Umm did you see the line up of big wigs already on this project.
I doubt the "invest" button will on the website any time soon.

http://www.evengineering.com.au/staff/

http://axiflux.com/news/axiflux-joins-ev-engineering/

I am inclined to believe it's plausable.

The overall motor physics doesn't change (magents with wires).
But segementing the wires and connecting smaller controllers repeated can have similar costs - or have other control benefits as they suggest.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by g4qber » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 15:06

http://www.swinburne.edu.au/engineering ... mption.pdf

petrol vs electric

look out for typos
eg. pettol
and the URL
comparitive
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Post by Richo » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 20:37

I almost didn't get the link between your post and this thread.

So ev engineering got the electric commorod out and went for test drives for comparison to the petrol cars.
Nothing was really surprising.
150Wh/km for a commode is pretty good.

Their summary is really a bit of a "has been".
Summary - change commode to Rocky mountain Institute "hypercar"

But it really defeats the purpose.
If you improve the aerodynamics and reduce the weight you won't have a commodore...
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by Johny » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 21:23

Yep. A few million dollars confirms that if it wasn't a Commodore then it'd be better.
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Post by Tritium_James » Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 23:38

Their (EV Engineering's) argument - and it's probably a pretty valid one - is that people want to buy large cars anyway, so if you convert large cars to EVs you make more of a difference to emissions. Selling only small EVs means that the 'large car' people will never buy an EV. It's better having a slightly inefficient large EV than no EV...
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Post by bga » Fri, 11 Oct 2013, 03:35

Gravity... real or does the planet just suck??
[Went to see Gravity on the weekend. Surprisingly good for a hollywood production. We were happy to accept the odd physics omission and continuity failure in the interests of good story telling and cinematography]

I think the point is that a conformodore is a vehicle that fairly popular and made locally. I agree that large cars have a place, but it isn't in crowded city streets.

My, now relegated, VZ (commodore!!!) station wagon is very useful for the occasional large or heavy load that will not fit in the i-Miev, although it is surprising what will fit in such a small car.

It does seem contradictory that the type of duty that large cars are well suited to (eg trips) is also the worst duty for EVs.

I notice they suggest reverse cycle heating!! Good idea in Australia where it will probably work a lot better than the electric kettle, particularly since all the machinery is already there. Perhaps the kettle is still needed on cold Canberra mornings.

The paper provides a good comparison of petrol vs EV for the same vehicle. It would appear that the kWh/100km = 2 * l/100km rule of thumb is nicely validated, with divergence, as expected, on the freeway cycle.
Last edited by bga on Thu, 10 Oct 2013, 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Johny » Fri, 11 Oct 2013, 15:00

Actually it was interesting where one of the graphs showed better fuel consumption as speed increased for an ICE and worse power consumption with increasing speed for an EV.
That's always a difficult one to explain to folk.
I understand the reason for converting a family car TJ - but I still hold the view that people can't just have what they have "always" had and expect the planet to keep up. We're just too greedy.

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Post by bga » Fri, 11 Oct 2013, 19:12

That graph was a good demonstration of just how bad the low throttle losses are with the (big?) V6 motors.

The sustainability argument is another entire topic. We have been experimenting with E-Bikes for weekend errands and visiting. The feeble-sounding 200 watt hub motor turns out to be very good at flattening out hills and making the entire ride feel like the back of a peloton. The motor has a one-way clutch so it pedals easily, like a cargo bike.

I have been thinking along the lines of the 1k watt solar panel system as the unit of transport energy. So, the e-commodore gets about 25km per day, an i-Miev about 35km and an e-bike about 400!
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Post by Richo » Thu, 17 Oct 2013, 20:50

EV Engineering wrote: people want to buy large cars anyway... It's better having a slightly inefficient large EV than no EV...


I don't disagree with it - just their summary.
They're not going to improve the aerodynamics substantially enough to a commodore without loosing the original appeal and gain enough Wh/km to make it worth while.
And where would they loose the weight - remove ABS, ESC, airbags and other crud that people expect in a car (some of which is a requirement).
What are the options - perhaps carbon fibre?
If they did these changes they'd end up with something like the hypercar (which isn't that small).

They have an efficient motor + drive.
They have identified they could do better on charging.
No point complaining that if it was a different car it would be better...
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Post by weber » Tue, 14 Apr 2015, 03:53

Sorry to have come rather late to this thread on the adaptive magnetic flux array (AMFA(tm)) motor from Axiflux.

You can now read its patent application, but it's an incredibly tedious read. They essentially describe every type of motor known to man, with their one supposedly new idea added.

My summary of that single idea is simply that you have a microprocessor-controlled switching bridge for every coil, and you stick the bridge and micro inside the motor casing close to the coil. Call it switch-per-coil.

Other than that, it seems that their preferred motor is just a high phase x pole count (e.g. 17 or 23), "brushless DC", permanent magnet motor, possibly ironless or low iron, much like the Ultramotive Carbon.

If switch-per-coil motors were the only kind that existed, I think someone would be saying, "Hey you know, if you make the number of poles a multiple of three, and wire every third one in parallel, then you can mount all the electronics independently of the motor by bringing out just three wires, and then you only need three half-bridges and it's all much simpler to control. Image

They claim that switch-per-coil allows higher efficiency at part load, but I don't buy that it's a significant improvement. I think most of the improvements come from doing what Ultramotive did.
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Post by unheardofinstruments » Wed, 15 Apr 2015, 18:01

The savings on part load are from being able to use a smaller number of the available coils at full power rather than running them all at fractional power thus improving efficiency at lower torque levels

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