Golden Motor - any experience?

AC, DC, amps, volts and kilowatt. It's all discussed in here
aegidius
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Golden Motor - any experience?

Post by aegidius »

Interesting large BLDC motor here - water cooled 200A continuous at up to 72V, 600A for 30 sec. Weighs 17kg. Could be a good light alternative to those 80kg+ motors, with water cooling taking care of the low thermal mass that you get with light motors.

http://www.goldenmotor.com/
click on BLDC Motor at left, then scroll the main page down to the HPM-10K.

Anyone dealt with this company? They most make hub motors for ebikes etc. but they also have a 5kW BLDC motor (same page) that may have found its way to motorbikes.
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Post by coulomb »

aegidius wrote: Interesting large BLDC motor here
There are definitely larger ones about.
http://www.goldenmotor.com/
click on BLDC Motor at left, then scroll the main page down to the HPM-10K.

I want to know why it has 6 terminals and two sets of water cooling connectors. Could it be that their prototype is two smaller motors siamesed together?
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Golden Motor - any experience?

Post by procrastination inc »

maybe the 6 terminals are the ends of each of the 3 windings. You can choose Y or delta or even switch between the two
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Post by antiscab »

BLDC (as in trapezoidal rather than sinewave) don't like delta all that much.

it could be the case as with the old xm-2000 scooters, where the windings are intended to be switched from series to parrallel.

lotsa contactors needed though.

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Golden Motor - any experience?

Post by aegidius »

I'd be worried about circulating currents, and all those little relays to go wrong. Also, you probably need all the volts/rpm you can get, to keep the revs down. But it's tempting to have a 2-speed motor.
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Post by a4x4kiwi »

Looks like the water jacket is in the end caps, not the body of the motor.
That would explain why there are 2 sets of coolant fittings.
Silicon is just sand with attitude.

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Post by aegidius »

Emailed Golden motor and got this reply: (I'll upload the curves in a min)

Hi Giles,

The 10KW motor will be available in July.
Attached is the motor performance curve and photo.

Thanks,

Philip Yao

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Post by 7circle »

Teaser Image
Were the files to big or wrong type?
Did they indicate price?
And suitable controller?
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Post by aegidius »

Performance curves.. the interesting bit is off to the right :-) but I think we can extrapolate. This is for 60V input.
Image

No prices, sorry.
Controller is available for the HPM5000, but this one will need a bit more current capacity.
Last edited by aegidius on Wed, 16 Jun 2010, 05:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb »

I assume that it's torque along the x axis, in some weird units. Strange that they do the test at almost constant RPM. Maybe the controllers aren't variable speed or something? But they specify bikes and electric cars as possible applications, so hopefully that can't be right.
Last edited by coulomb on Wed, 16 Jun 2010, 06:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by a4x4kiwi »

I see a few of charts like this now. They do my head in! I prefer the RPM on the x axis and everything else on the y.

I am sure someone can enlighten us as to why the charts are done like this.
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Post by aegidius »

Usually current is along the X-axis, because it's easier to do the motor maths with current as the independent variable. For a PM motor, torque is proportional to current, so it's equivalent to put that on the X-axis as well.

The RPM is almost constant because it's a PM motor - a series motor would drop speed more quickly (and increase torque) as load increased. Now if we knew the motor resistance, we could calculate the curves for any voltage - these look too smooth to be measured ones anyway.
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Post by aegidius »

Price details in $US below. Good value! I asked if he had a rep in Oz but don't expect much - their website lists a bike shop in Blakehurst, NSW who are not answering any emails. If they still exist, they would only have stocked the small hub motors.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: HPM-10K inquiry
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:59:12 +0800
From: Philip Yao <sales@goldenmotor.com>
Reply-To: Philip Yao <sales@goldenmotor.com>
Organization: Golden Motor
To: Giles Puckett <gilesp@iinet.net.au>

Hi Giles,

The price of 10KW BLDC motor is USD395
The price of 500A controller is USD513

Thanks,

Philip
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Golden Motor - any experience?

Post by 7circle »

aegidius wrote: Performance curves.. the interesting bit is off to the right :-) but I think we can extrapolate. This is for 60V input.
Image

No prices, sorry.
Controller is available for the HPM5000, but this one will need a bit more current capacity.

I inverted it see extra detail
Image
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Post by 7circle »

Also have you seen this on endlesssphere
Image


Re: 12 kw rc motor

They call it "COLOSSUS"

The guys Marcobetti and HAL9000v2.0 are developing with a chinese manufacturer.
Its an Outrunner with liquid cooling.
Whereas this golden motor is an inrnner.
I'm suprised they haven't been discussing this 10KW Golden Motor.
You might want to post on there for feed back.
There are some bike build with the 500W motor in that forum.

(edit: the golden motor is probably a surrounded outrunner ie stator coils inside the rotor magnets)
Last edited by 7circle on Wed, 25 Aug 2010, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by aegidius »

Update: the web page http://www.goldenmotor.com/ --> BLDC link has changed. The HPM-10K is no longer "coming soon" but there is still no PayPal link or price for it. I do note that the BLDC controller has changed though - it's now in 300A and 500A versions, with regen. They did tell me there would be a new controller for the HPM-10K, so this must be it. The 500A version costs $446 US. The link to the PDF user guide still points to the old one, so maybe they are in the middle of updating their web page. I will buy one if they become available. Will keep y'all posted.
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Post by LightningEV »

I have been dealing with Golden Motor with this since about October 09, and yes it was only a few weeks away then, too.

Frankly I don't quite understand what was so hard about my request, as Initially they said they would develop the motor inhouse, and that my services would not be required to build the prototype as I initially had offered.

They have had this motor at prototype stage for some time now and I can only assume that they have hit a wall with the thermal dissapation.

The test was conducted at 54VDC Bus Regulated.
The motor is run at a set speed and load is applied untill a given point and the data is graphed.
Synchronous motors operate from Slip angle so there is actually no need to reduce the rpm to gain more torque like with series motors.

If you want a motor in the near future get the 7000B, It is actually available and has been for a year now. The HPM-10K is suppose to be available by November, tho to be honest I have all but given up that it will ever exist.

Unless I go ahead and build it myself.
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Post by antiscab »

LightningEV wrote:
Synchronous motors operate from Slip angle so there is actually no need to reduce the rpm to gain more torque like with series motors.


are you saying that motor is sine wave?
as opposed to having increased 3rd and 5th harmonics to run on trapezoidal (aka BLDC)?

that would certainly be a branch out for Golden motor if they are going sinewave. (controllers in good power levels are hard to come by though)

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Post by LightningEV »

I am saying that the motor was Intended to be a PMAC motor, to my knowledge PMAC motors are mearly Synchronous machines.

Harmonics are usually a product of Inductive Reactance within the stator coils. The windings within HPM-10K have a very low resistance which creates a low Impeadance and low levels of harmonics, comparitively.

I think Golden may have reached the De-Magnatisation level with the HPM-10K with the 300% overload levels when you consider the design is likely already 150% rated at 10kw. Most BLDC designs of this Nature only have a 200% overload capability.

I am not sure as to why one would design a motor to operate in 3rd and 5th harmonics when it is much simpler and efficient to design a Sinewave controller in the first place.

Kelly Controlls LLc Have a 200hp programmable controller, How much power do you need?
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Post by aegidius »

What's a 7000B? Do you mean GM's 5000B?

The 10K is vaporware then - I'll believe it when I see it (working in a vehicle, that is!)

I had a feeling that as the power goes up, the need for sine wave drive is greater - I have built small BLDC controllers before but nothing like 10kW. GM are giving no details away about their new controller. A 3-phase bridge in a small box rated to 500A sounds a bit too good to be true (just on the number of mosfet packages required)
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Post by LightningEV »

The 7000B is the 72v version of the 5000B, I believe they actually call it a 5000B 72V on their website but when it arrives it says 7000B on the motor.
I had some pics of the motor pulled down somewhere I'll have to post them up, It is of very simple design, almost crude, but very cheap.$.
If They cannot produce the HPM-10K I will get 2 7000B and couple them together.
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Post by antiscab »

kelly dont make *any* sinewave controllers.
indeed, outside of the industrial VFD market, noone do sinewave controllers.

they are all BLDC.
They might be synchronous, but they sure aren't sinewave.

you increase the 3rd and 5th harmonics to improve the efficiency while running on BLDC.

BLDC controllers are easier to make than sinewave, as you only need a vague idea of rotor position, powering 2 windings at a time.
hence everyone gets away with at most 3 x hall sensors for position sensors.

even more basic designs don't include any position sensing, and guess rotor position based on back emf.

with sinewave, more precise rotor position is needed.

increased power level doesn't mean you *have* to go sinewave, the losses are much the same either way.

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Post by aegidius »

LightningEV wrote: I had some pics of the motor pulled down somewhere I'll have to post them up, It is of very simple design, almost crude, but very cheap.$.


Please do, I'd like to see that - such info is hard to come by.
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Post by Tritium_James »

antiscab wrote: indeed, outside of the industrial VFD market, noone do sinewave controllers. Matt


We do :P
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Post by antiscab »

heh, that you do....keep forgetting about you guys :D

Hows dyno testing coming along?

for some reason everytime I think chinese BLDC, I think motorbike.

if the HPM-10k truly is sinewave design, the lack of a locally (to china) made controller would certainly hold up development.

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