Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

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motas
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Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

[ Edited Coulomb: Arrgh! Passion fingers strikes again! I'm so sorry, Motas, I've mangled your first post by editing instead of replying. Sigh. There were a few parts that I didn't quote, so please post those again below. ]
As background I’m converting my old Jeep Ute, aiming for around 100kW with a max RPM at about 4000RPM. Peak torque should hopefully be up around 850Nm at low RPM, which allows me to ditch the gearbox entirely and just run the TC.

I used to think that torque converters with their ≈2:1 torque multiplication were ideal for EV conversions, but there was some hitch that made them tricky; sadly I can't recall what that is right now.
I’ve found EV specific motors that meet these specs, intended for small busses and trucks, but cost and availability is prohibitive, which brought me to looking at rewinding industrial motors.
There is a very large old topic on this, starting 2008: AC motors, multipoles, torque.
From what I can gather on forums, a 160 frame motor sounds like it may be suitable,

Weber managed to find an ABB 132 frame motor that is capable of 100 kW peak for his MX-5 conversion (also a huge topic; at least this one has an index). Though "only" 350 Nm of torque. Plus, it was not inexpensive, and took months to be manufactured and delivered.
and from options online even brand new the costs are quite reasonable, and availability is good.

As above, his motor was neither. [ Edit: But that doesn't mean you can't find one that is both reasonable cost and with good availability. ]
Is anyone able to shed some light on if I’m heading down the right track,
It's certainly doable, especially if you're on a tight budget. Though these days, second hand OEM drivetrains (e.g. Tesla, Leaf) should also be considered.
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
motas
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

Thanks Coulomb, all the important information is still there. The only bit missed is that weight and space isn't much of a restriction on this vehicle, it came with a big old inline 6 (220kg) with plenty of room in the engine bay, and a whopping 1 tonne payload on-top of the already high original tare.

I've looked into Leaf and Tesla motors, but a lot of motors aim for higher RPM and lower torque. I have a big spreadsheet with a bunch of different options and easily achievable gearing options, and unfortunately there aren't any good options for a high RPM motor. There's clearly a weight penalty for a large high torque motor, but it's more than offset by the weight of the gearbox, and I suspect the larger frame size will help with keeping things cool. Going down that path allows me to keep the stock transfer case and just regear the diffs (which will need doing regardless).

With regards to what I consider reasonable cost, the EV specific options are up around the $10k mark at least, while 160 frame aluminium motors seem to be available around $3k. I'd also have the option of looking for a used one, especially if it needs rewinding anyway. By availability I am mainly referring to being able to buy from a reliable source, this is a long term project so a 6 month wait time would be no problem at all, but a lot of the motors I've found require ordering direct through a Chinese manufacturer, with the potential of receiving a dud.
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
antiscab
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by antiscab »

motas wrote: Fri, 05 Aug 2022, 05:47 With regards to what I consider reasonable cost, the EV specific options are up around the $10k mark at least, while 160 frame aluminium motors seem to be available around $3k.
Keep in mind, the EV Specific options tend to come with a motor controller and reduction gear, which for an induction motor at that power level is $10k on it's own

this one (which I'm toying with putting in an RX8) is $9k (inc shipping), includes gear reduction, motor controller and even axles, weighs 90kg and gives 220kW:
https://www.lithium-power.com.au/produc ... cst=custom
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 103'000km
2007 vectrix - 193'000km
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
motas
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

antiscab wrote: Fri, 05 Aug 2022, 13:58
motas wrote: Fri, 05 Aug 2022, 05:47 With regards to what I consider reasonable cost, the EV specific options are up around the $10k mark at least, while 160 frame aluminium motors seem to be available around $3k.
Keep in mind, the EV Specific options tend to come with a motor controller and reduction gear, which for an induction motor at that power level is $10k on it's own

this one (which I'm toying with putting in an RX8) is $9k (inc shipping), includes gear reduction, motor controller and even axles, weighs 90kg and gives 220kW:
https://www.lithium-power.com.au/produc ... cst=custom
The Jeep is 4WD and solid axle front and rear, so a Tesla drive unit won't fit well with the transfer case. I know some people have run centre diff setups but I want to retain the off-road capabilities and low range gear so I need a bare motor.
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
antiscab
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by antiscab »

ah fair enough

Whats the highest ratio you can achieve between the diff and transfer case?
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 103'000km
2007 vectrix - 193'000km
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
motas
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

antiscab wrote: Sat, 06 Aug 2022, 08:24 ah fair enough

Whats the highest ratio you can achieve between the diff and transfer case?
Big 33-35" tyres means I need extra low ratios unfortunately. On the plus side very large diffs in this car so 5.86 is the lowest I can go on just the diff. Transfer case will normally be 1:1 when on the road. 3800RPM gets me almost bang on 110kmh top speed.
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
antiscab
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by antiscab »

can the transfer case also have a reduction?
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 103'000km
2007 vectrix - 193'000km
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
motas
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

antiscab wrote: Sat, 06 Aug 2022, 09:52 can the transfer case also have a reduction?
I could switch to an LT230 from a Defender, but that would require a new front diff with a pumpkin on the other side.
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motas
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by motas »

Okay, so after a lot of reading (22 pages of AC motors, multipoles and torque 😮) I've come to the conclusion I'd be looking for a 180 frame, 4 pole motor rewound to a manageable voltage such as 240V. Lucky there's a big engine bay.

Then for the 3800 RPM needed for direct drive, I'd need to run it at 600V, coupled with a VFD that can pump out a whopping 300A?
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
T1 Terry
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Re: Industrial motors suitable for conversion?

Post by T1 Terry »

I believe I have a motor here some where in a box that I bought as a group lot from someone who needed to clear stuff out before he moved overseas.
This is about all the info I have on it:
I also have this ASEA 132 frame aluminium motor for sale as well. I removed the end bells for identification (there's no data plate on it). I don't remember what we decided, but I think it was most likely a 4-pole, possibly 6. It runs and the windings are fine. It's also a good candidate for a custom wind due to the slot count. It's fully assembled now, but it needs new bearings. The NDE shaft has been turned down to a smaller diameter and no longer accepts a shaft-driven fan.
If you are interested, I'll need to dig through a heap of boxes of stuff still upstairs in the workshop that we moved over here from Wollongong ..... I can't say I've laid eyes on it recently, but as far as I know I still have it :?

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
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