For Sale - 220 kVA AC Controller

Post by **weber** » Wed, 31 Aug 2011, 07:10

This is an industrial AC motor controller (variable speed drive) in the Control Techniques range from Emerson. The model is Unidrive SP 5402 which is nominally 400 Vac, 75/90 kW continuous motor power.

It is as-new, but not in original packaging. It has only been used by a little old lady to test unloaded motors on the bench on Sundays.

OK I was joking about the old lady and the Sundays, but the rest is true. Only used 3 times.

I bought it new for just over $12,000 in June 2009 but I'm willing to sell it for less than half that. $5,000 excluding packing and freight. It is located in Bardon, Brisbane, QLD, Australia. Payment can be by electronic transfer.

You can contact me by Private Message on the forum, or by email to d dot keenan at bigpond dot net dot au, or by phone on 07 3366 2660.

As many of you will know, I bought it for use in Coulomb's and my high-performance MX-5 conversion. But it didn't quite fit it in the little 2-seater, while leaving enough room for the battery required to deliver the peak power.

So for now we have gone with a Tritium WaveSculptor 200 with its lower voltage (splitting the battery into two equal halves and paralleling them) and hence the MX-5 will have a lower top speed than planned.

The Unidrive SP5402 would suit a high-performance ute, van or truck conversion, or anywhere that space isn't such an issue. We can advise on suitable induction motors to use with it. It can also drive permanent magnet brushless motors.

Included are: an LED keypad, an Applications Lite v2 programming module and the SYPT-Pro software.

Specifications:

DC Bus voltage range      425 to 815 Vdc (e.g. 150 to 226 lithium cells)
Max continuous AC output voltage 480 Vac (requires Vdc > sqrt(2)*Vac)
Max continuous AC output current 168 A
Peak AC output current           273 A for 40 seconds (closed loop)

Dimensions 298 x 310 x 820 mm
Mass        55 kg
Forced-air cooled by built-in blower.

You can see the manufacturer's sales brochure here. And if you register (free) on their website, you can read the full user guide and drawings in the "Downloads" tab here.

Post by **PlanB** » Thu, 01 Sep 2011, 23:27

Fifty five kilos, what a beast! That's 10 kg heavier than that Lexus IPM I'm usin' for a door stop. I'd have to rethink the Suzuki Cappuccino though.

Post by **weber** » Fri, 02 Sep 2011, 00:56

PlanB wrote: Fifty five kilos, what a beast! That's 10 kg heavier than that Lexus IPM I'm usin' for a door stop. I'd have to rethink the Suzuki Cappuccino though.

Yes, it's a beast. But now that you mention it, there are 3 big toroidal inductors in the AC-input rectifier stage, that are not needed when it runs off a battery. They probably weigh about 5 kg collectively. So that brings it down to about 50 kg.

And yes, it would be a miracle if you could fit it in a Cappucino. Unless you put wheels on it and tow it behind.

Post by **coulomb** » Fri, 02 Sep 2011, 04:40

weber wrote: They probably weigh about 5 kg collectively.

My recollection is that they were about 7 kg each. In fact, this post by a clever person claims that they total over 20 kg. So that's more like 35 kg for the controller without the toroids.

Post by **coulomb** » Fri, 02 Sep 2011, 04:45

coulomb wrote: ... this post by a clever person ...

Ahem. Perhaps this person is not so clever; the idea of power factor correction and then adding inductance seems pretty silly (now). But I think he's right about the weight of the inductors, having lifted them once or twice.

Post by **PlanB** » Fri, 02 Sep 2011, 22:14

At 200kw I guess I wouldn't have to worry about burning it out on a 50kw motor? Given that IPMs aren't as synchronous as regular PM motors how do you think it would cope with the Lexus motor? Can you remember if it had a resolver input?

Post by **weber** » Sat, 03 Sep 2011, 13:30

Hi PlanB, I tried to reply last night but the forum was unavailable. That seems to be happening an awful lot lately.

PlanB wrote: At 200kw I guess I wouldn't have to worry about burning it out on a 50kw motor?

No, you wouldn't have to worry about that. I think it can protect itself even into a dead short. This is one very smart drive, or about what you'd expect for 12 grand.

Given that IPMs aren't as synchronous as regular PM motors how do you think it would cope with the Lexus motor?

I think IPMs are totally synchronous -- a hybrid between a reluctance motor and a PM motor, which are both synchronous. Apparently some have a squirrel cage but I think this is only of use in bringing them up to synchronous speed when started direct-on-line.

In any case, I don't know for sure, and can't find anything online that explicitly mentions IPM in conjuction with a Unidrive but it's described as a "Universal AC Drive". You would presumably use the "Servo" mode. This article
http://www.controleng.com/index.php?id= ... ash=266016
seems to suggest that the flux-vector control algorithm (which the Unidrive uses), works well with IPM motors.

You may find other useful articles if you Google: Unidrive "Interior Permanent Magnet".

I have emailed Ross Pink asking whether he knows anything more specific.

Can you remember if it had a resolver input?

As standard it accepts incremental encoder or SinCos inputs. For a resolver you would need to buy the "SM-Resolver" plug-in module.

The Unidrive has 3 slots for options modules. As I mentioned above, an "SM-Applications Lite v2" module ($370 new) and its software tools ($1200 new) are included in this sale. This is similar in function to Tritium's Driver Controls unit but with a high-level graphical programmer interface. You can also get an "SM-CAN" or "SM-CAN Open" CAN-bus interface module.

To get prices for these, you can contact:
Nady Kerollos
Control Techniques Australia
16 Tucks Road,
Seven Hills NSW Australia
Telephone   +61 (2) 98387222
Fax        +61 (2) 98387764
Mob        +61 0414399025
nady dot kerollos at emerson dot com

[Edit: Fixed link. Added clarification.]

Post by **PlanB** » Sat, 03 Sep 2011, 15:46

I got a blank page for that ControlEngineering link Dave but I'll ask around on Unidrive-IPM compatibility, thanks.

Post by **PlanB** » Sat, 03 Sep 2011, 16:01

PS: There was mention in the sales blurb of a dump resistor for regen. I assume the drive can put regen current back into the battery too?
Look I have no background in power electronics so please excuse if this question is overly dumb. I'm thinking if I acquired this drive I could hook it up to 3 phase power (415v~) & get about 650v DC on the bus? Then if I put the IPM on a dyno I could optimise the drive settings for best performance? That way I haven't spent money on a donor car or batteries so I'd only be down $4K if the drive & motor are not a good marriage.

Post by **weber** » Sat, 03 Sep 2011, 18:13

I've fixed that link. Sorry about that. The URL contains embedded square brackets that wreak havoc with BBCodes.

PlanB wrote: PS: There was mention in the sales blurb of a dump resistor for regen. I assume the drive can put regen current back into the battery too?

Certainly. That will happen automatically. You'd have to write code if you wanted to prevent it or limit it.

Look I have no background in power electronics so please excuse if this question is overly dumb. I'm thinking if I acquired this drive I could hook it up to 3 phase power (415v~) & get about 650v DC on the bus? Then if I put the IPM on a dyno I could optimise the drive settings for best performance?

Yes. You could certainly do that. But you should only expect about 580 Vdc off 415 V three-phase. We didn't have 3 phase for testing and used a voltage doubler off 240 V single phase which gave about 650 Vdc. But this mod has been removed and the drive is currently stored at Ross Pink's workshop where we have 415 V three-phase.

That way I haven't spent money on a donor car or batteries so I'd only be down $4K if the drive & motor are not a good marriage.

Why only $4K? Drive is $5K + packing and freight.

You would also be welcome to bring the motor to Brisbane to try it out with the Unidrive before you buy, although it would only be an unloaded test. I'm sorry I can't provide a dyno, only a lump of wood to lever against the shaft. But you'd need to provide the resolver interface module.

Post by **weber** » Sat, 03 Sep 2011, 20:14

The Unidrive has various auto-tune functions as described in this app note.
http://www.emersonct.com/download_usa/a ... tan234.pdf

Post by **PlanB** » Sun, 04 Sep 2011, 21:06

Tnks again. I need to check if the Unidrive algorithm can access the extra saliency torque available from an IPM & get a price on the resolver adapter.
The Lexus transaxle is a bugger to torque test because it has 2 half shaft O/Ps linked by an internal diff so I need a dual input hub dyno if I want to check it before it's in a car.
Sorry about the $4k gaff, freudian slip on my part I must have been thinking price post haggle.

Post by **weber** » Mon, 05 Sep 2011, 17:00

I asked Ross Pink of Electronic Innovations about using the Unidrive with an IPM motor. Ross has a Prius, which I understand uses the same kind of motor.

Ross Pink in email wrote:I'd say its quite likely it could drive the hybrid motor with some fiddling of the parameters.

I then wrote:

Weber in email wrote:The worry is that it might somehow fail to take advantage of the torque available from the saliency and only get the benefit of the permanent magnets. But when I try to think about this, my brain hurts. I don't understand variable reluctance motors.

Ross Pink in email wrote:If it's a straight Switched Reluctance Motor then they have their coils driven in one direction only, then left to flyback and return energy to the bus as the magnetism dies out. And that needs a different configuration to the three half bridges of the normal inverter, and it needs six wires going to the motor.

But the Prius motor only has three wires going to it, so that can't be the method and it's got to handle the PM part, so you would expect it would be a normal inverter output.

Post by **PlanB** » Mon, 05 Sep 2011, 20:44

I remember a time when I used to think an RF directional coupler was black magic but I know better now. I wonder if motor temperature rise is linearly proportional to the extent to which a VSD doesn't understand variable reluctance motors? And, if so, would it then be a measure of the reluctance of the VSD instead?

Post by **weber** » Wed, 30 Nov 2011, 19:50

Just listed on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0608344505

Post by **Sheany** » Wed, 30 Nov 2011, 21:51

weber wrote: Just listed on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0608344505

Just in time for christmas! Oh how I wish I found this sitting under my christmas tree.

Post by **Bicka** » Thu, 10 May 2012, 20:33

weber wrote: Just listed on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0608344505

Hey Weber,

Did you end up selling this beast? I am considering a 3-phase conversion. Melbourne Area.

Cheers,
Bicka

Post by **weber** » Thu, 10 May 2012, 22:41

Bicka wrote:Hey Weber,

Did you end up selling this beast? I am considering a 3-phase conversion. Melbourne Area.

Cheers,
Bicka

Hi Bicka,

No I haven't sold it yet, but I have not relisted it on eBay (expires every 10 days) because I'm negotiating with a possible buyer. The sale is dependent on demonstrating it driving the buyer's somewhat unusual motor. I will let you know if that falls through. Test happening in early June.