First drive of industrial ac hilux

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
a4x4kiwi
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Tue, 10 Mar 2009, 08:17


Recharge was 8.99kWh

Perhaps the regen is not so unreasonable. We do have some very steep hills.

The inspector did drive it and was quite happy. I let him know before hand that low speed was a little touchy due to speed control (not torque). He said it was quite smooth and controlable.

More video will follow. Perhaps you will be able to pick by ear from the audio when it is losing sync. I will find a willing cameraman.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Mon, 09 Mar 2009, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 10 Mar 2009, 08:44

That is 365Wh/km from the power point ? Seems high ? might explain motor temperature.
But then I am not certain of your charger efficiency or anything.
You may need to log some on battery V and I.
I find the VLT kWh counter fairly accurate at counting absolute kWh.

Anyway, grab some USB logged data from VLT and have a look.
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 10 Mar 2009, 22:24

antiscab wrote:
EV2Go wrote: Congrats Mal, great to hear your mobile (unlike me who became unmobile over the weekend Image)


this seems like a recurring theme....

both my EV bike and ICE car died last weekend aswell.
coincidence? :(

Matt


No the bike is fine this was my doing. Mr Policeman said please hand me your license and $1700, now take the train for 6 months Image

Stupid is as stupid does...

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Post by HeadsUp » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 00:31

must have been a planetary alignment between Jupiter and y'uranus or something coz i blew up my ICE too

poor little Dino ferrari Replica appears to have spat some gearbox cogs

boo $$$ hoo    Image

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 15:10

Sounds like an opportune time for an EV conversion on it Image

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Post by Johny » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 16:35

Yes, it's an omen. Image

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Post by woody » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 16:56

EV2Go wrote: No the bike is fine this was my doing. Mr Policeman said please hand me your license and $1700, now take the train for 6 months Image

Stupid is as stupid does...
Getting waaay off topic here, but co-incidentally I rode my pushie Mt Colah -> McUni railway today, it would be dead easy for you to roll down to end of Kissing Point road, over the river and back up the other side to the M2, and cycle to work. Only one bit of uphill from lane cove to M2.

You could catch the train home and roll down Kissing Point road from the station.

cheers,
Woody
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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 18:02

Yeah not wanting to hijack Mal’s thread but yes I had contemplated that, they are changing the bus route in the next few weeks so it will still go past my door but instead of going to Turramurra station it goes to Macquarie shopping centre, which is a short train ride to Ryde station and a 10 minute walk.

Back on topic any idea how range is looking yet Mal?
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Post by Mesuge » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 11:45

Mal, I've already dispatched congrats via your blog, amazing progress indeed, pls. keep us updated with more performance data/statistics and perhaps even more/detailed videos as your time allows. Thanks
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 00:13

By request here are my latest parameters that are changed from default...

ID Name Setup 1 Unit
009 Display line 2 Output energy [kWh]
010 Display line 1.1 Dc link voltage [V]
011 Display line 1.2 Reference Image
012 Display line 1.3 Torque Image
014 Local stop Disable
102 Motor power 15.00 kW
103 Motor voltage 415 V
105 Motor current 28.00 A
106 Motor nom. speed 1450 RPM
108 Stator resist 0.2722 Ohm
109 Stator react. 20.47 Ohm
113 Lo spd load comp 150 % (For hill starts)
114 Hi spd load comp 100 %
115 Slip compensat. -300 % (Gives better throttle response at high speed)
119 High start torq. 0.5 s
128 Mot.therm protec Etr warning1
129 Motor extern fan Yes
200 Out freq rng/rot 132 hz both direct.
202 Out freq hi lim 132.0 Hz
205 Max. reference 132.000
206 Ramp type S2
207 Ramp up time 1 6.00 s (Economy)
208 Ramp down time 1 1.00 s
209 Ramp up time 2 2.00 s (Power)
210 Ramp down time 2 1.00 s
221 Torq limit motor 348.5 %
222 Torq limit gener 60.0 %
224 Warn. current hi 97.6 A
227 Warn. feedb. low -4,200.000
228 Warn. feedb high 4,200.000
300 Digital input 16 No operation
301 Digital input 17 No operation
302 Digital input 18 Latched start
305 Digital input 29 Ramp 2
306 Digital input 32 No operation
307 Digital input 33 Encoder fb, input a
314 Ai [mA] 60 funct No operation
319 Ao 42 function Fb min-max =0-32000p (Speedo)
320 Ao 42 puls scale 66 Hz
321 Ao 45 function 0-tlim = 0-32000p (Tacho)
322 Ao 45 puls scale 99 Hz
323 Relay 1-3 funct. No operation
326 Relay 4-5 funct. No operation
329 Encoder pulses 40 (Inductive pickup gear)
405 Reset mode Automatic x 2
410 Inv.fault delay 35 s
411 Switch frequency 3.0 kHz
415 Max. feedback 4,500.000
416 Ref/feedb. unit Rpm
417 Speed prop gain 0.015
445 Flying start Enable
446 Switch pattern 60° avm
457 Mains imbalance Warning
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 01:18

Electric fan installed replacing shaft fan.

See blog for details.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 02:05

I took a 32km drive last night. According to the volt meter, that equates to a final SoC of 30%. Not quite as efficient as I had hoped but there were some long hills.
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Post by Johny » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 02:39

Mal I reckon 265wh/k is pretty close for the weight vehicle you have given what you said about the conditions.
It would be very interesting to do a run with limited torque, or in torque control, in an attempt to ensure the motor doesn't loose sync (if that is still an issue). I would imagine that the hills play havoc with attempting to keep sync just with ramps etc. and not carefully controlled closed loop.
Also a kilowatt log of flat and level at 60k/h would tell you a lot.
Q. What speed(s) were involved?

Edit: Sorry the fan mounting looks like a bought one - great stuff.
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Post by acmotor » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 05:25

Mal,

Why is 457 Mains imbalance Warning set ? Is that so you can detect when the extension lead reaches the end ? Image Is there something I should know there ?

100 and 101 ? Secrets ? OK speed open and high constant defaults.

Have you experimented with 117 / 118 yet ?

I like the fan ! well done. Gee that emotor looks familiar ! Image
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 07:15

Hi Tuarn,

457, as far as I can see this might be triggered if the batteries get too low as it can only be sensed by a low voltage on the DC bus.

[edit] I would prefer warning rather than trip

I have not played with 117 and 118. I have not done too much playing apart from what I needed to do to pass the engineering. I need to delve into this more now.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Fri, 13 Mar 2009, 07:17

Johny, the speeds involved were up to 70 max. mostly below 65.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 14 Mar 2009, 06:26

Mal,

457 mains phase loss detection looks at ripple on the DC bus as would occur if a phase is missing on the input (and there was some motor load) i.e. the normal 300Hz ripple drops to 100Hz and increases in magnitude. VLT can continue at reduced power but mains current on remaining phases will increase. Not an EV issue.
Regen can trip this when running from mains however when connected to a solid DC bus there is little chance if tripping. So I leave it off anyway.

450 mains voltage at mains fault (normally 342VAC) = 470VDC is the low voltage cutout. It actually gives a warning first at 470 and seems to trip the controller at about 440VDC. So no sudden action.
(you can see this happening on the LCP each time you power off)
You cannot disable this and why would you anyway. If the pack is down to 470V you should stop driving before you kill a battery.
I did reach this on the original 7Ah SLAs because of their high ESR but not been there yet on the 20Ah SLAs.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Sat, 14 Mar 2009, 15:10

Hi Tuarn,

For the phase loss, the options are warning or trip. I choose warning 'just in case' but as you say, this is not AN ev issue.

Hopefully I never get down to 470# if I do I have bigger problems with the pack than the controller tripping.
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Post by a4x4kiwi » Tue, 17 Mar 2009, 20:29

With the help of a friend and a GPS I have calibrated the speedo. The speed (and presumably distance) were previously understated by 10% so my efficency is about 238Wh/km.

I still need to do a wheel allignment for 0deg toe in and I might be able to get some gains by parameter tweaking in the VFD.

I have a 35km trip to make on Wed so will do another check.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Tue, 17 Mar 2009, 09:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fuzzy-hair-man » Tue, 17 Mar 2009, 20:58

a4x4kiwi wrote: I still need to do a wheel allignment for 0deg toe in
I've driven a car with 0 degree toe in and it wasn't an enjoyable experience, of course yours is probably completely different but I'd be expecting to be adjusting it back again soon.

I'd just put on disk brakes and set toe as 0 degrees until I sorted it out better (then I forgot) and was dismayed at how awful the handling was. The car was awful at something like 80 - 100km/hr (speedo wasn't working at the time, lower speeds were better) and felt sort of like I had the handbrake slightly on or it would kind of drift about, at 100 or so I was seriously having doubts about keeping it on the road Image this was on a gravel road though so it may have had something to do with it.

Perhaps drop it to something like 2 or 3 degrees? I was really surprised how much different it made setting it to 5? degrees, but as I said your experience might be totally different.

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Post by EV2Go » Fri, 20 Mar 2009, 18:08

Why don’t you set it with a few mm of toe out? Toe in or toe out stops the car from wandering all over the road, but if you set it to toe out it will go around corners marginally better and there might be a bees dick less rolling resistance, which is the whole point of doing it.

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Post by Electrocycle » Fri, 20 Mar 2009, 18:33

I can confirm that the hilux wanders all over the place with toe out.
It's not too bad when set close to neutral (very slight toe in)
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Post by Johny » Fri, 20 Mar 2009, 18:34

I'll probably get a slap on the wrist here but I have been under the impression for years that tow-in is there for 2 reasons.

1. Stop steering gear slack from causing wander.

2. Compensate for bearing and brake drag causing the wheels to "turn out" when the vehicle is moving. This because steering components are generally shock coupled (rubber) which have movement.

If this is valid, deliberate toe out would greatly increase tyre wear.



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Post by Electrocycle » Fri, 20 Mar 2009, 18:48

the main reason for toe in it that with radial tyres you usually run some negative camber, which would cause uneven wear of the tyres.
A bit of toe in evens out the wear - as well as keeping some lateral load on the tyre, preventing wandering.

Running toe out works well on sports cars, improving the steering feel and response, but it does tend to cause accelerated inside edge tyre wear unless you do a lot of hard cornering :)
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Post by CZal » Tue, 19 May 2009, 00:17

Hi Mal,

Firstly great work. I enjoyed the vids on your website...

Just a quick question stemming from my motorbike days... I know that 80% of braking is done with the front wheels.... How do you go with regen braking your rear wheels only?

Do you get braking performance, any probs with rear wheel lockup?
Or do you friction brake the front wheels??

Thanks...

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