Francisco's Electric Pajero
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- Real Name: Francisco
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I had to put the diff upside down so it spins in the original direction. The bearings on the diff are designed to push rather than pull. So the plug that you see is actually the drain plug.
I was also concerned about the oil getting to the thrust bearings but the original diff for the Pajero had the input on the top instead of the bottom. So my assumption is that there is enough oil being thrown by the crown gear to get the oil to the thrust bearings.
The oil level is a little under the center line so the bottom crown gear is always immersed in oil.
I guess if it was always running very slow it could be a problem but I think you only need to do 20kph and there will be so much oil being thrown around that it won't be a problem.
The only issue is draining it and the breather port. I had to block the breather port off and will need to add a new breather port on top.
I was also concerned about the oil getting to the thrust bearings but the original diff for the Pajero had the input on the top instead of the bottom. So my assumption is that there is enough oil being thrown by the crown gear to get the oil to the thrust bearings.
The oil level is a little under the center line so the bottom crown gear is always immersed in oil.
I guess if it was always running very slow it could be a problem but I think you only need to do 20kph and there will be so much oil being thrown around that it won't be a problem.
The only issue is draining it and the breather port. I had to block the breather port off and will need to add a new breather port on top.
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- Real Name: Terry Covill
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
With my set-up being a hypoid design, the pinion bearings and gear teeth were originally submerged in the oil as well as a oil catch port as part of the cast iron that collected the oil tow from the crown wheel and fed that through the pinion bearings as well, I guess to ensure there was oil flow through the bearings.
I'm now leaning towards the idea of rolling the diff centre back into its original position and drive from the original forward position with the electric motor, possibly through the 4 sp Alison auto that is already part of the rear engine drive set up .... maybe a mid mount ICE motor as well and then decide what to do with the rear engine compartment ..... I was always weary/ doubtful about the wisdom of turning a hypoid diff upside down ......
T1 Terry
I'm now leaning towards the idea of rolling the diff centre back into its original position and drive from the original forward position with the electric motor, possibly through the 4 sp Alison auto that is already part of the rear engine drive set up .... maybe a mid mount ICE motor as well and then decide what to do with the rear engine compartment ..... I was always weary/ doubtful about the wisdom of turning a hypoid diff upside down ......
T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I have been a bit busy working on other stuff.
I was having some trouble trying to get the CAN bus working. I didn't have a known working board that I could use for testing. Thanks to Andrew for lending me his boards.
After some troubleshooting I managed to get the CAN bus working on the SAME70 processor.
I also managed to make a comms protocol to send commands and settings to the inverter. Here is a video of it working under speed control.
Andrew's board reads the motor RPM via CAN reads the speed set point from the pot attached and calculates a torque command using a (badly tunned ) proportional controller running on Andrew's board. It then sends the torque command to the motor. None of the parameters are set correctly so it is a bit jerky.
I have finished drawing prototype board with the SAME70 processor and all the rest of the interface electronics. If I didn't make any mistakes it should all work.
I also came up with a way of getting the power cables and hoses out of the inverter. I just need to replace the flange on the back and make a case and the motor should be complete. Now that I can use CAN to send the torque commands I should be able to run two motors. Cant wait to try it
I was having some trouble trying to get the CAN bus working. I didn't have a known working board that I could use for testing. Thanks to Andrew for lending me his boards.
After some troubleshooting I managed to get the CAN bus working on the SAME70 processor.
I also managed to make a comms protocol to send commands and settings to the inverter. Here is a video of it working under speed control.
Andrew's board reads the motor RPM via CAN reads the speed set point from the pot attached and calculates a torque command using a (badly tunned ) proportional controller running on Andrew's board. It then sends the torque command to the motor. None of the parameters are set correctly so it is a bit jerky.
I have finished drawing prototype board with the SAME70 processor and all the rest of the interface electronics. If I didn't make any mistakes it should all work.
I also came up with a way of getting the power cables and hoses out of the inverter. I just need to replace the flange on the back and make a case and the motor should be complete. Now that I can use CAN to send the torque commands I should be able to run two motors. Cant wait to try it
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- Real Name: Francisco
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
With the new flange installed.
I don't really like this solution. I wanted to keep the motor round all the way thru but I can't think of how to make a case for the back that can be easily removed, will be easy to make and will not have sealing issues where the cables and pipes go thru. The good thing about this solution is that I don't have to disconnect the power cables or the coolant hoses to remove the back cover.-
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- Real Name: Francisco
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I got a prototype made with everything in. Still had a few mistakes but it should be good enough to test everything.
I need to cut the wires to the right length.-
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Finished cleaning up the wires.
For now this will be good enough for testing.
Added cable glands and thicker cable.
I still need to remake the bus bars so the cables come in straight into the busbars.For now this will be good enough for testing.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Hey mate, awesome project! Not sure if I missed it but any chance of a link/source for that motor? 100kW continuous is perfect for my Jeep conversion. Cheers!
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
To get 100kw continuous you have to rewind it and not sure if there is an inverter you can get off the shelf that will run it.
When are you planning to do your conversion?
When are you planning to do your conversion?
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I doubt I'd need 100kw continuous, would ideally like about 125-150kW peak though. It's only got about 75kW peak stock!
Not in any huge rush, would be happy to wait for the right solution.
Not in any huge rush, would be happy to wait for the right solution.
Jeep CJ10 - in pieces awaiting conversion
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
It has 100kw peak and 50kw continuous without rewinding and I have a spare motor. I could see if I can get you the original inverter.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
My plan is once I got everything finished I was going to see if I could get enough people together to buy say 10 and get them rewound from the factory and I would make sets with a built in inverter.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I had the chance to play with a Nissan Leaf motor yesterday. I was curious as to the back EMF so here are some pictures.
That is 1.44v/Hz. Compared to my motor before rewinding of 1.55v/Hz.
I don't know how many poles the motor is. I had no way to check as I couldn't measure the rpm.
The back EMF is a nice sine wave as expected.
19.2v @ 13.3hz.That is 1.44v/Hz. Compared to my motor before rewinding of 1.55v/Hz.
I don't know how many poles the motor is. I had no way to check as I couldn't measure the rpm.
The back EMF is a nice sine wave as expected.
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- Speed measurement.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I got the inverter cooling hoses connected. I was a bit worried it was going to be difficult to get a preformed hose to fit. Luckily good old Holden Commodore happens to have one that fits almost perfectly.
Now I have to get one of the hoses to connect to the motor coolant inlet and that should be pretty much it.
This is going to be a messy part to make.- jonescg
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I struggled to find the exact hoses I needed for the Prelude heater loop, and while I made something work, it ain't pretty.
You did well to find those ones and make them work.
You did well to find those ones and make them work.
AEVA National President, WA branch director.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I took 2 pieces of wire. Bent them in the shape I needed the hose to be.
Then went to super cheap and went thru all their hoses until I found two that fit.
Then went to super cheap and went thru all their hoses until I found two that fit.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I took the motor out of the test chassis so I could install the new inverter hardware. Now I have two motors on the bench.
I also finished making the connector for the coolant between the inverter and the motor. Now that the motors are almost ready it is time to start working on finishing the battery pack.
Today I started making the parts for the battery pack.
First I need to cut the material for the cooling plates. Then fold them. That is it for today.
I should get the new inverter boards sometime next week. Then I can start testing the coms with two motors. I don't expect any problems. After that I will install two motors and test them together. Should have good acceleration. I also finished making the connector for the coolant between the inverter and the motor. Now that the motors are almost ready it is time to start working on finishing the battery pack.
Today I started making the parts for the battery pack.
First I need to cut the material for the cooling plates. Then fold them. That is it for today.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Some small progress today.
I made some parts for the battery. .
I made some parts for the battery. .
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I got the new boards installed on the motors.
There are 4 wires for control. (12v,GND, CANH and CANL) and two for power. I also got the CAN bus working with the two motors. I can access each motor individually.
As a test I run a program on the Arduino sending the CAN massages. It has two control loops running from a pot as set point and motor RPM as feedback. The output of the control loop is a torque command to the motor. The motor replies with the speed. Each motor takes a different torque command. The motors do not have the same winding so the right one can spin faster than the left one.
On the video both motors run at roughly the same speed. The control loop is very rough.(did not try to tune it to get good response)
Here is another video of the motors running in torque control.
In torque control the motors spin to the maximum speed because there is no load.
The slow motor has the original winding and the fast motor has the new winding which was 2.5 times less turns. It can be seen from the maximum speed that the resound motor spins at 2.4 times the original speed.
So far everything adds up correctly.
There are 4 wires for control. (12v,GND, CANH and CANL) and two for power. I also got the CAN bus working with the two motors. I can access each motor individually.
As a test I run a program on the Arduino sending the CAN massages. It has two control loops running from a pot as set point and motor RPM as feedback. The output of the control loop is a torque command to the motor. The motor replies with the speed. Each motor takes a different torque command. The motors do not have the same winding so the right one can spin faster than the left one.
On the video both motors run at roughly the same speed. The control loop is very rough.(did not try to tune it to get good response)
Here is another video of the motors running in torque control.
In torque control the motors spin to the maximum speed because there is no load.
The slow motor has the original winding and the fast motor has the new winding which was 2.5 times less turns. It can be seen from the maximum speed that the resound motor spins at 2.4 times the original speed.
So far everything adds up correctly.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I made some more progress today.
Installed the two motors in the battery box. And got them both running.
The front motor is the one that was rewound to a lower voltage hence the front wheels spin faster.
At the moment it is running from a pot. Maybe If I get a chance tomorrow I will wire up the inputs to the accelerator pedal and to the gear lever switches.
I wanted to test how much better it is so I put a 100mm square piece of wood in one of the wheels and I moved it until it was pressing against it then I slowly applied more torque and it rolls over it.
Installed the two motors in the battery box. And got them both running.
The front motor is the one that was rewound to a lower voltage hence the front wheels spin faster.
At the moment it is running from a pot. Maybe If I get a chance tomorrow I will wire up the inputs to the accelerator pedal and to the gear lever switches.
I wanted to test how much better it is so I put a 100mm square piece of wood in one of the wheels and I moved it until it was pressing against it then I slowly applied more torque and it rolls over it.
- brendon_m
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Looking really good. Keep up the impressive work.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
A few more tests.
Still using 36v lead acid batteries.
Still using 36v lead acid batteries.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Loving this, well done!
- brendon_m
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I just love how it's basically silent and effortless. If that was still ICE there would have been lots of unnecessary reving and noise
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Yes. I tried to do the same with a manual just to see how it would compare and I stalled the engine a few times and there was lots of noise and smell of hot clutch. The auto was had less stalling but the engine did seem to have a hard time.
Also with the ICE after you get to the top it suddently takes off. The ICE is much harder to control an to do things smoothly.
Also with the ICE after you get to the top it suddently takes off. The ICE is much harder to control an to do things smoothly.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I was doing a test of the LG cells today and was very surprised at the results. I have a friend that wants to use them on a drag car. He wanted to know if they could take a 15C discharge for 10sec. He agreed to pay for the cells (in case they burst into flames during the test) so we run the test.
We built a 1P10S pack. The cells are 63Ah and we put a 1000A load. We had a few mishaps. Like the contractors welded and we didn't realised they hadn't opened so the test run for about a minute and a half instead of the 10sec we were planning.
The 10 sec test didn't really overheat the cells. The terminal temperature went to about 75°C which very quick dropped to about 50°C when we turned the load off.
We measured the internal resistance per cell to be about 1mOhm.
As a reference a 4P96S (254Ah 350v 88kwh pack) would hsve an internal resistance of about 24mOhms.
I would be interested to know what other packs internal resistance is.
I am happy to report that the cells did not catch fire and did not swell up.
I will post a video later.
We built a 1P10S pack. The cells are 63Ah and we put a 1000A load. We had a few mishaps. Like the contractors welded and we didn't realised they hadn't opened so the test run for about a minute and a half instead of the 10sec we were planning.
The 10 sec test didn't really overheat the cells. The terminal temperature went to about 75°C which very quick dropped to about 50°C when we turned the load off.
We measured the internal resistance per cell to be about 1mOhm.
As a reference a 4P96S (254Ah 350v 88kwh pack) would hsve an internal resistance of about 24mOhms.
I would be interested to know what other packs internal resistance is.
I am happy to report that the cells did not catch fire and did not swell up.
I will post a video later.