Francisco's Electric Pajero
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
You can't quite get 800A out of the battery because of the inductance of the motor.
But I am hopping the momentum will be significant.
I managed to get 96S4P (about 84kwh). It will be the same voltage as most EVs.
But I am hopping the momentum will be significant.
I managed to get 96S4P (about 84kwh). It will be the same voltage as most EVs.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Damn, that's a serious pack! Do you know how much it ended up weighing?
That makes my 33.8kwh battery seem tiny. But still better than the Mazda MX-30 if you take its weight into account.
That makes my 33.8kwh battery seem tiny. But still better than the Mazda MX-30 if you take its weight into account.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I have not finished it yet but the estimated weight from all the bits is about 440kg for the whole battery pack and about 120kg for the motors.
I am expecting to have about he same weight as the original weight.
I am expecting to have about he same weight as the original weight.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
After doing more testing I have come to the conclusion that the problem is that the angle measurement from the resolver is not accurate enough. As the speed increases the measurement errors cause errors that the control loop can not correct for because they happen too fast. This also causes distortion of the motor driving voltage which causes the distortion in the current waveforms.
It is possible to fix the accuracy problem by adding more circuitry to improve the exciter signal, improve the signal amplitude variations and add more processing. However this is getting too much work. So I decided to use a resolver interface IC.
I got a development board and got it working via SPI using a different processor (only because it is easier to use).
The next step is to connect the development board to the inverter board and see if it produces a better result. The inverter board uses a 144pin QFP processor and I now have to solder wires to the pins and get the wires secured so they don't get ripped off and then somehow connect it to the dev board.
I have managed to solder 3 of the 4 wires I need to solder to the processor.
I am very proud of my self for getting the two wires soldered to the pins side by side. Just one more wire and I should be able to get the dev board working.
After that I need to update the software to read the dev board and see how it goes.
I hope I can run a test by tomorrow.
It is possible to fix the accuracy problem by adding more circuitry to improve the exciter signal, improve the signal amplitude variations and add more processing. However this is getting too much work. So I decided to use a resolver interface IC.
I got a development board and got it working via SPI using a different processor (only because it is easier to use).
The next step is to connect the development board to the inverter board and see if it produces a better result. The inverter board uses a 144pin QFP processor and I now have to solder wires to the pins and get the wires secured so they don't get ripped off and then somehow connect it to the dev board.
I have managed to solder 3 of the 4 wires I need to solder to the processor.
I am very proud of my self for getting the two wires soldered to the pins side by side. Just one more wire and I should be able to get the dev board working.
After that I need to update the software to read the dev board and see how it goes.
I hope I can run a test by tomorrow.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Now with all the wires soldered.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Gee, what's the pitch?! Well done.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I think it is .5mm pitch.
I didn't think I would be able to get the two side by side wires.
I didn't think I would be able to get the two side by side wires.
- jonescg
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Quick - set the whole lot in epoxy once you've confirmed it works!
AEVA National President, returning WA branch chair.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
This is just to test if improving the resolver accuracy fixes the problem and to confirm that I can get the resolver decoder chip to work.
I managed to get the wiring and software sorted out. And the result is below. It seems this has fixed the problem.
The next step is to make a new board with all the mods.
I can not run it at higher voltage because the processor keeps resetting. It has too many long wires injecting noise.
Of the few times I managed to run it without resetting at higher voltage it seems it has solved the problem.
I am starting to doubt that the SAME70 is a good choice. It has very good specs on paper but it is a pain to use. Even the simplest of tasks are so difficult to implement. I spent almost the whole day yesterday trying to figure out how to get the SPI to output signals to the pins. Then another half day today trying to work out why it was not working correctly. Then after I got it reading and the software updated I spent another half of the day trying to figure out why I was getting so much noise in the ADC after installing the SPI. It turns out that if you have a pin next to the analogue input switch when the sample his taken you get a lot of noise. Lucky I could take the signal from another pin. But the CAN TX is next to one of the other ADC inputs which probably explains why I get noise on the other channel but not as bad.
I managed to get the wiring and software sorted out. And the result is below. It seems this has fixed the problem.
The next step is to make a new board with all the mods.
I can not run it at higher voltage because the processor keeps resetting. It has too many long wires injecting noise.
Of the few times I managed to run it without resetting at higher voltage it seems it has solved the problem.
I am starting to doubt that the SAME70 is a good choice. It has very good specs on paper but it is a pain to use. Even the simplest of tasks are so difficult to implement. I spent almost the whole day yesterday trying to figure out how to get the SPI to output signals to the pins. Then another half day today trying to work out why it was not working correctly. Then after I got it reading and the software updated I spent another half of the day trying to figure out why I was getting so much noise in the ADC after installing the SPI. It turns out that if you have a pin next to the analogue input switch when the sample his taken you get a lot of noise. Lucky I could take the signal from another pin. But the CAN TX is next to one of the other ADC inputs which probably explains why I get noise on the other channel but not as bad.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I am going to increase the effort into the Pajero project. I am finishing off a few jobs and will have more time.
I will get the donor car to the paint shop next week. I also want to increase the sound insulation and will get the interior redone.
So I decided to remove all the interior from the test car to see what needs to be done. Then it occurred to me that I could remove all the wiring and replace it with modules that operate over CAN bus.
I decided to start with the doors. So I want to make a door controller and decided to ask people here what I need to add. So far I have the following:
Electric window.
Central locking.
Electric mirror.
Mirror turn signal.
Folding mirror actuator.
Courtesy light.
Window switches.
Lock switch.
Door switch.
Can anyone think of anything else I may need on the door?
I hope it is a good idea to change the wiring.
The reason I decided to do this is so I can automate more. To do things like say open the windows a little if the interior is too hot when the car is parked and turn the fan on to vent the hot air. There are many more things that become viable once a computer has control over the actuators.
I would appreciate any suggestions.
I will get the donor car to the paint shop next week. I also want to increase the sound insulation and will get the interior redone.
So I decided to remove all the interior from the test car to see what needs to be done. Then it occurred to me that I could remove all the wiring and replace it with modules that operate over CAN bus.
I decided to start with the doors. So I want to make a door controller and decided to ask people here what I need to add. So far I have the following:
Electric window.
Central locking.
Electric mirror.
Mirror turn signal.
Folding mirror actuator.
Courtesy light.
Window switches.
Lock switch.
Door switch.
Can anyone think of anything else I may need on the door?
I hope it is a good idea to change the wiring.
The reason I decided to do this is so I can automate more. To do things like say open the windows a little if the interior is too hot when the car is parked and turn the fan on to vent the hot air. There are many more things that become viable once a computer has control over the actuators.
I would appreciate any suggestions.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Nothing like scope creep
Charging flap maybe?
Just to add I'm very impressed with this project would like to attempt something similar on maybe a 4x2 hilux
Charging flap maybe?
Just to add I'm very impressed with this project would like to attempt something similar on maybe a 4x2 hilux
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Heated mirror glass? Reverse dipping mirror? Electric window entrapment sensing? Electric child proof locking for rear doors?
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
You need to be very careful with auto function electric windows. I remember as a kid, the news story about a young boy who choked himself to death before the parents could reach him to stop the window going up. I think the story went something like, the kid had the keys to unlock the car, turned the key and the window went down, he stuck his head in to do something, and the window went back up, choking him.
What might be a better idea, rather than opening the windows, is starting up the fan, switching the air to fresh rather than recirculate, and pushing the hot air out through the flow through vents in the rear of the vehicle. If the air con had an electric compressor, that could be kicked in to drop the temp to a suitable level, switched on via a smart phone app so the car was nice and cool when you arrived to sit in it.
T1 Terry
What might be a better idea, rather than opening the windows, is starting up the fan, switching the air to fresh rather than recirculate, and pushing the hot air out through the flow through vents in the rear of the vehicle. If the air con had an electric compressor, that could be kicked in to drop the temp to a suitable level, switched on via a smart phone app so the car was nice and cool when you arrived to sit in it.
T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I was thinking of opening the windows only a small amount (like say 20mm). So you couldn't stick your hand in or out.
This accident may be the reason why only the driver side window is automatic?
This accident may be the reason why only the driver side window is automatic?
- brendon_m
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Nah, lots of cars have all auto windows, especially newer onesfrancisco.shi wrote: ↑Sat, 27 Nov 2021, 14:47 This accident may be the reason why only the driver side window is automatic?
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
The power window problem is easily solved by using a current sensor. I added an Arduino controller (relays and current sensors) for my MX-5 which had power windows but not auto up/down ones.
The logic is pretty simple, the windows only take N seconds to go up or down and a timer is in place to stop after N seconds + N1 seconds. The logic knows the average current draw for the window motors and if it exceeds a threshold (the motor will always pull more current if there is resistance such as something blocking the window) it will stop and wind down instead.
To solve the auto up/down button I time the duration of the press of the button and if it's under ~200ms then it's an auto press otherwise it's just manual control.
I've uploaded a video of it in operation here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ANTsEA ... sp=sharing
The logic is pretty simple, the windows only take N seconds to go up or down and a timer is in place to stop after N seconds + N1 seconds. The logic knows the average current draw for the window motors and if it exceeds a threshold (the motor will always pull more current if there is resistance such as something blocking the window) it will stop and wind down instead.
To solve the auto up/down button I time the duration of the press of the button and if it's under ~200ms then it's an auto press otherwise it's just manual control.
I've uploaded a video of it in operation here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ANTsEA ... sp=sharing
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
That is a good idea about determining if you want auto or manual.
I already know about the current draw for determining when to stop. But using time is a little unreliable for retracting.
If the window is say 50mm down then the current would go up very quickly and could be confused with a jam.
I was thinking of adding a switch 20mm from fully close and if the current goes up before the switch is activated it is a jam. The switch can also be used to open the windows just a little which I always want to do when I park the car in the sun.
I already know about the current draw for determining when to stop. But using time is a little unreliable for retracting.
If the window is say 50mm down then the current would go up very quickly and could be confused with a jam.
I was thinking of adding a switch 20mm from fully close and if the current goes up before the switch is activated it is a jam. The switch can also be used to open the windows just a little which I always want to do when I park the car in the sun.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Yep, a switch would work very well for that. I'd guess that most cars nowadays have some sort of switch to determine that and some of the more advanced ones know the exact position of the windows.
Are the window switches for the Pajero signal switches or do they act as manual relays (i.e. carry full current to the window motors)? The NB MX-5 ones carry the full current through the switch acting as manual relays which I was a little surprised to discover.
Are the window switches for the Pajero signal switches or do they act as manual relays (i.e. carry full current to the window motors)? The NB MX-5 ones carry the full current through the switch acting as manual relays which I was a little surprised to discover.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
They carry the full current of the motor. The auto function essentially locks the switch in the on position and relies on the current to trip the switch and stop the motor.
It is very primitive (very cheap and nasty). I want to use the original switches but had not thought of a way to implement the manual/auto function. I think your idea is quite good.
It is very primitive (very cheap and nasty). I want to use the original switches but had not thought of a way to implement the manual/auto function. I think your idea is quite good.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Cool, well it should work pretty well for you! Though I'm not sure you're going to get away with less wiring for the power windows
Are you thinking of going down a keyless entry and start route (aka Tesla) or something of similar function? I'll be going down that route eventually, most likely using Bluetooth LE and an "always on" Raspberry Pi running Android that will power the dash display.
Are you thinking of going down a keyless entry and start route (aka Tesla) or something of similar function? I'll be going down that route eventually, most likely using Bluetooth LE and an "always on" Raspberry Pi running Android that will power the dash display.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I am going to get an infotainment system for the display. I can get units with carplay and surround cameras and all the fancy stuff on new cars.
I will have to figure out how to install software so I can add an interface for the EV settings.
I want to go keyless entry but will keep the key for starting. (I really don't like the start buttons)
I want to do the keyless entry using the same method as everyone else. Not sure how it works yet but it can detect where the key is (if it is inside or outside) I also want to add some way of unlocking the car when you touch the handle if the FOB is near.
As for the wiring it will save a lot of wiring. There still will be lots of wiring to every actuator and sensor but that will be a short distance to aboard located nearby.
Form there I just need power and CAN. It will make the wiring behind the dash substantially simpler.
I had a look at the wiring of the wreck and it looks like a nightmare. I think I will spend more time trying to figure out where it all goes than rewiring it all and I get the benefit of being able to control everything by computer.
I will have to figure out how to install software so I can add an interface for the EV settings.
I want to go keyless entry but will keep the key for starting. (I really don't like the start buttons)
I want to do the keyless entry using the same method as everyone else. Not sure how it works yet but it can detect where the key is (if it is inside or outside) I also want to add some way of unlocking the car when you touch the handle if the FOB is near.
As for the wiring it will save a lot of wiring. There still will be lots of wiring to every actuator and sensor but that will be a short distance to aboard located nearby.
Form there I just need power and CAN. It will make the wiring behind the dash substantially simpler.
I had a look at the wiring of the wreck and it looks like a nightmare. I think I will spend more time trying to figure out where it all goes than rewiring it all and I get the benefit of being able to control everything by computer.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Why not do away with physical keys all together? If your going computer controlled for locks, why not do the same for the accessories and HV on (ignition on) states...
With the proximity detection of an electronic key (e.g. phone) and foot brake + hand brake sensors you've got enough state information to control everything and be road legal.
Being able to walk up to your locked vehicle, open the door, sit down and shift into D without every touching any kind of key is brilliant!
With the proximity detection of an electronic key (e.g. phone) and foot brake + hand brake sensors you've got enough state information to control everything and be road legal.
Being able to walk up to your locked vehicle, open the door, sit down and shift into D without every touching any kind of key is brilliant!
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
It is worth giving that a thought.
I was going to run all the battery checks and maybe precharge when the driver door is opened so that when i turn the key it starts straight away but your idea sounds good. I just need to think it thru a bit.
Will need to consider the shut down process too.
Also need to consider a case where you may want to sit in the car and have the radio and aircon on but not want the motors to be able to drive the car.
I guess that if I get everything controlled by the computer I can add or change how things work in the future.
I was going to run all the battery checks and maybe precharge when the driver door is opened so that when i turn the key it starts straight away but your idea sounds good. I just need to think it thru a bit.
Will need to consider the shut down process too.
Also need to consider a case where you may want to sit in the car and have the radio and aircon on but not want the motors to be able to drive the car.
I guess that if I get everything controlled by the computer I can add or change how things work in the future.
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Yep, once everything is connected via CAN and a computer the logic becomes super easy to implement and alter.
From what I can gather from my Tesla is the HV system becomes live (or at least the drivetrain components) once you've opened the drivers door, sat down and put your foot on the foot brake. This seems like a good starting point.
I can think of only one issue with implementing a system like this in an older vehicle and that's the mechanical steering lock that's released by turning the key in the ignition. But that could most likely be controlled with a small motor or actuator.
From what I can gather from my Tesla is the HV system becomes live (or at least the drivetrain components) once you've opened the drivers door, sat down and put your foot on the foot brake. This seems like a good starting point.
I can think of only one issue with implementing a system like this in an older vehicle and that's the mechanical steering lock that's released by turning the key in the ignition. But that could most likely be controlled with a small motor or actuator.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I think the steering lock is only needed in case you can hot wire the car. Not sure if the steering lock is necessary if the computer has control of the drivetrain.