Glenn_aircooled Project tricycle

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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Glenn_aircooled Project tricycle

Post by glenn_aircooled » Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 23:18

I have been wanting an electric vehicle for years now.
Havent been able to save anything toward it.
So thinking about cost of vehicle rego , insur , petrol , maintenance
Vs's a very Light Electric Vehicle [ one I can afford ] .... I have narrowed down my thoughts to an Electric powered Tricycle.
        I could build the tricycle [ I have the skills ] but it would take me a long time. I need to sell my car [ cant afford rego much more any way ] so that money could go toward .... . . . ..


Image
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 13:52, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 00:14

Thats an Alloy framed trike total weight 17kg. $1600 shipped to home from Canberra.
Rider weight ummm Approx 93 kg [ must reduce that a bit ]

Now the electric Motivation.

Image

24V [ advertised 450W ] but Actually 200W for Australian use. 440 RPM on output sprocket.
Its all Alloy so weight is 2.2 Kg. $90 pick up from Parramatta.           [ reminder - must reduce that Rider weight ].
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 01:17

Range Maker:

     30 x 18650 4200mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargeable battery cell ... Tabbed

     AU $159.71
Buy It Now
(8% off)

Free postage.

These are cylindrical batteries 65mm long , 18mm diameter.
I will solder there end tabs .. 4 cells in Parallel , then 7 groups in series.
thus 7 x 3.7 V = 25.9 V TOTAL.
      4 x 4.2 Ah = 16.4 Ah TOTAL PACK.
from 28 cells.
Total weight 1.8 kg.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:05

To Keep Battery lasting longer:


Image


BMS/PCB/PCM for 24V/25.2V(7S) Li-Ion Battery Pack (50A +/-10A limit)With Balance function.

$37.27   postage $9.71.
This unit is from USA , not totally sold on this one as I think the OVER-current LIMITER is too low for my 16 Ah Pack. One statement said 50A current limit and then ....

Note Said :

Applications.
Apply for 14 Cells Li-ion / Li-polymer Battery Pack with discharging current < 30A.
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:19

Next off Motor Controller:

Image

Australian made 100A , tough, with thumb control potentio/ Hall effect.
Includes Thumb control.
$101.90 . Pick up Parramatta same place as motor.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:28

Charger:

Image

24 volt 3 amp Lithium li-ion battery charger.
Australian distrib. $42 Postage $8   from Albury.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:42

Drive format:

I dont want parasitic load on the tricycle when pedalling only. [ no electric use ]
So I decided upon an independent drive chain on the left side of rear wheel...a bit like ..

Image

So this would have a freewheel on the sprocket on the wheel. [ difficult to set up but do-able]

The motor I chose is only 440 RPM , so the cog on my wheel would be 17 teeth.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:46

Tally of expected cost;

Mota          $90
Batt Pack     $159.71
BMS           $ 46.98
Controller
and throttle $101.90
charger       $50
             ----------
              $448.59

Trike        $ 1600
            ------------
All up       $ 2048.59

Still requires . chain . cogs . waterproofing for electrics . brackets
for motor . wiring .

Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 02:48

That's a little brushed motor I gather? Definitely try to fit it to the sprag clutch side as the freewheel should make it much nicer to ride when not using the motor.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 03:05

Yes brushed motor, and the efficiency is only stated as >75 %   so a bit
wasteful I think. I dont mind changing brushes occasionally [ although I cant see how you get at them ].
The higher efficiency Brushless were a tad heavy. [ but quieter & probably less maintenance] . The cost was also higher.


Just realized - a flat rear tyre would be a challenge .The manner I intended is to have the motor in front of wheel. Have to loosen motor to
remove chain before beginning repair process.
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 17:23, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 03:47

Now I'm hoping to attract some more of those "Learned Peoples" with some
MathaMantics :)

Rear wheel 700C circumference 2.120m
Maximum target speed unachievable 40 km/h   so 40 000m / 60 = 666m / min

That means rear wheel spins at 666m/2.12m /min = 314.465 RPM

motor spins top speed 440RPM : 314.465RPM of wheel = 1.4 reduction Ratio.
So wheel cog 17 teeth , 17 / 1.4 = 12.14 so 12 Teeth on Motor.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 04:06

Some Questions;
1. is there a typical C rating for these 2400mAh Li-ion batteries?
I know it depends upon internal resistance, but this info not given in advertisement.

2. The BMS has an overcurrent protection system. This motor I have chosen is capable of drawing 130A and blowing up controllers. If the current limit on the BMS is too low - the acceleration will be snail like.
What would a good current limit be?

3. Could some one please calculate the range of this set-up Pretty Please. :)
I expect some info is still required, but some idea if that is possible.
Oh the wind resistance is low.
250W gives 34 km/h
364Watts yields 40 km/h ..
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Thu, 18 Jul 2013, 18:42, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 06:29

Roughly speaking...
Battery pack 25.9V x 16.4A = 425Wh
18650 cells are most likely to be >5C so 100A on 7S4P is fine.
Note brushed emotor will not draw 130A at 24V, 440RPM and when at say 6V 100A from controller, the battery current will only be 25A or so.

At 34km/h, average power from battery would be 250W/.75(emotor eff.)/.9(controller eff.)/.9(chain eff.)= 412W
So range may be 425Wh/412W x 34km/h = 35km but be thinking more like 30km.

Gearing for 40km/h may not be satifactory acceleration at low speeds. Maybe run emotor on 36V battery and gear for 25km/h at 440RPM at 24V point. Running motor to 660RPM at 40km/h with 36V. Controller will supply current as required. Even the magic 200W setting. Emotor current will still be the same 25A nominal.
iMiEV MY12     110,230km in pure Electric and loving it !

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 13:24

Thank you, I forgot about the effect of controller in limiting the current.
Thank you for answering my questions.
You are right - I would benefit more from lower gearing. Even if I could get the system working at the higher km/h , I would be more often
in the lower speed range for my commute - where the motor would assist
me the most.
Good Call.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by Taxman » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 13:47

Hey mate,

I don't want to derail the exciting first stages of an ev conversion, or an ev addiction, for that matter (I have multiple projects, and can't stop steering normal conversations in an ev direction) BUT I have an electric bicycle for sale with the same sort of specs that I just don't use.

It's one of these http://www.beyond-oil.com/Beyond-Oil_El ... n_Bike.htm without the garrish stickers.

It's seen very little use, I was surprised how much pep the 200W motor has. I'm in Brissie if you are interested. I've got 700 bucks on it. Again, I don't want to disrupt the mad scientist fun, the recumbent looks awesome!

Sam

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 18:40

Very tempting, that is a nice electric bike Sam. Great value, and would solve some of my commuting route problems [ some barriers on my route are too Narrow ] . Its certainly got me thinking.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 18:47

My plans include improvements such as this Front Fairing

Image

The fairing gives a little weather protection and reduces the wind resistance.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 19:02

then there's the rear one and wheel covers

Image

Each additional slipstreaming device can add a couple of Km/h
at the same power input. Weight goes up too , so a stop start commute
doesnt gain as much from them.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by Richo » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 20:52

glenn_aircooled wrote: Range Maker:
      30 x 18650 4200mAh 3.7V Li-ion Rechargeable battery cell Tabbed
      AU $159.71
      Buy It Now
      (8% off)
       Free postage.


Sorry but there is another thread about dodgy e-bay batteries.
Manufacturers have NOT got to 4.2Ah yet.
They DONT exist.
Please look for alternatives.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 22:27

THANK YOU so much.
I was impressed that they appeared so good as such a cheap price........
I will look again. Problem is , I won't trust any of the specs now. Image
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by zeva » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 22:48

Reminds me of an old saying: There are three types of liars in the world. Liars, damned liars, and battery manufacturers!

It's a pity there's no regulation on claims of battery capacity. Wouldn't it be great if there was an online database of independent test results for all the various cells available? Pretty much the best we can do instead is stick with known brands from respectable suppliers.
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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 22:56

Had a quick look for batteries and I found something reasuring,
Turns out some have trustworthy written on the batteries themselves . . .

There was     Trust Fire , Ultra Fire. , Fire Peak. , Tangs Fire, Mars Fire , Blazer , and Fenix - I think something about rising from the ASHES. !! I am positive that these names can be relied upon.
        Image



The Sanyo ones - people are trying to flog off for $12 each . Ha Ha.
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 23:42

I have some LED torches 6W, 18W using 18650's and 70W using 26650's. The brand is 'trustfire' maybe unfortunate name for a lithium battery. Image
These cells do perform !
Image

The 70W (3S) is 11.1V at nearly 7A for best part of an hour.
torch

The torches are serious business fully machined aluminium with o ring seals.
...just saying.
iMiEV MY12     110,230km in pure Electric and loving it !

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Post by glenn_aircooled » Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 23:49

Tuarn , at least you have tested these , What was the mAh written on the battery Vs the actual torch run time figure ?
Like that 70W torch running at 7A for 1 Hour - do you know the Claimed mAh..?

Just saw some trust fire 26650 5000mAh batteries , if these are what you have then the actual Ah is greater than the Advertised figure.
Last edited by glenn_aircooled on Fri, 19 Jul 2013, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers , Glenn... I am working toward that happy " I never stop at Petrol Stations " feeling    :)

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Post by Richo » Sat, 20 Jul 2013, 00:19

Yeah not the fake ones from ebay.
4Ah 18650 "Fakefire" (remember 4Ah 18650 don't exist)

Fake branding info:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/14962

Think I'd rather buy lipo's from Hobby king or move up to headway's from evworks.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

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