StudentEV's Daihatsu Conversion

[StudentEV]

Another accidental double up post

[StudentEV]

Yes that makes a lot of sense. An on board charger is not such a bad idea. Again, I think it will just be a matter of budget when everything else is running and connected.

Probably the least of our problems until we get hold of a traction pack.

I have updated the blog and posted a video from about 6 months ago of when we removed all the ICE parts from the car. No real tech talk, it has been a steep learning curve since then.

Student EV Blog

Thanks for the offer 4springs but we hope to have it on the road by then! I guess you never know!


Also, we never made anything back on parts from the car, apparently in Aus scrap is going for around $50 per tonne! So a neighbour threw it in the back of his ute for us and carted it away.

[CometBoy]

Maybe this blog link?

http://studentev.blogspot.com.au/

[StudentEV]

Haha, that's brilliant. I've had people say the link doesn't work in the past but could never work out why. I've fixed it in the last post. Cheers!

[StudentEV]

So I've sorted out the batteries, thanks to antiscab!

They are NiMh batteries from Vectrix scooters that have been converted to lithium. Made up of about two hundred sealed NiMh cells, totalling two packs of two at 125V, 30ah. I have to do a bunch of testing in order to remove dead cells and cells not giving a high enough amp hour count, and hopefully I will be left with a 125V, 25-ish ah pack which will allow me to achieve my range goal of 25km with a little to spare, and lots of spare cells.

I am told by one of the original owners of the batteries that most Vectrix scooters in Aus are yet to be converted to lithium, antiscab might be able to confirm this. If this is the case I might be able to get enough cells together to run two 125V systems in parallel in the future as an easy wasy to increase range.

For now I've decided one pack is enough to get the car working, through the cert process and on the road, and I can look at upgrading when I have the batteries or the range is no longer useful.

Here are some pics:





So next on the list:

• Amateur panel beating and spraying to remove rust and prepare car for the parts to go in
• Test motor, recondition if necessary (may have to pay someone for this, depending on condition)
• Test batteries and create one good pack, bolt it in
• make a cooling system for batteries

Parts still needed: Controller, adapter plate, vacuum pump, dc-dc converter, charger/s

That's it in brief. Any recommendations for a controller?

[StudentEV]

And in a fall from grace I am now deciding whether to sell my currrent host vehicle and purchase something better.

In looking in to cleaning up rust the rust and panels I found more and worse than I thought there was...

Rust on the inside of the boot, two panels that need beating, in fact the bloody thing seems to have been rolled at some point as there are dents on one side where the side mirror, door handle and aerial holders have pushed the panels in, in tricky to fix places. Nothing really compromises the structural integrity of the car, but it would be so much work, especially not having done anything like it before, and I might end up risking the whole project over a roadworthy certificate.

After we took the ICE stuff out I rolled it up against a fence to keep it out of the way while I looked for parts, and it's the bad side that's up against the fence.

Another factor is that the key I was given doesn't open anything or even fit the ignition. Killer stuff and something I didn't even check til recently.

I'm thinking about selling the vehicle. I basically want someone on here to tell me it's the right thing to do.

I could then look for another host vehicle with:

No rust
Clean, straight panels
A key that works

Also, I could make sure that gearbox is running fine, suspension is in good nick etc. Rather than 'yeah I think it's all good' from the seller. This stuff might be OK, but I don't know for sure and it would be worse to find out later.

I'm such a fool, I was so excited about the whole project when I got the car I looked over a load of crucial things.

Alternatively, I magically find a panel beater willing to work for cheap/free.

Thoughts? Go easy!!!

[StudentEV]

If I was to do this, and managed to get a little cash for the car/parts then I will only be a couple hundred in the hole at worst (spent $200 on the car, $100 on a tow)

Only issue is finding another car that is as light as this one. Could be a bit tricky. I know there is a subaru make that ran on a two or three cyclinder engine, could be worth looking into? Or, another handi (rare), any other suggestions for super light cars?

[Johny]

Yes, scrap it! It sounds like you will spend more on the car than on the conversion and while that sounds suss coming from me...
Donors in good nick can be found and you aren't in a "must be going next week" kind of hurry.
Let's get the feelers out and try to find a lightish donor.

[StudentEV]

Thanks John, I needed that. I agree.

I know there is a Daihatsu just down the street from me that has been parked in the same position for about a year now, it's in good nick at least body-wise. Maybe I can find out who owns it and make an offer? Alternatively, steal it

[Johny]

....Alternatively, steal it.

Um - try making the offer first. It'll be cheaper in the long run. I guess the only thing you have to lose is being embarrased.
Meanwhile how are the panels held on to your existing donor? Maybe it's worth pricing panels at a wreckers and generally checking out wreckers for quick and dirty fixes for the existing car (I may have been hasty )

[StudentEV]

Haha! I was absolutely joking about stealing the car!! I spoke to my neighbour about it, he reckons it belongs to a guy who hasn't driven it in two or three years but keeps registering it???

To replace the panels... Would need one new door, a new hatch and an entirely new right side panel... I will have a look but it's not a popular make, and I'd still need to change all the locks.

[antiscab]

make sure you hang onto those spare interconnects - they're made of copper and there's a surprising mass of them once you pulled apart a few batteries

I should probably put you in touch with the old Vectrix distributor who is also in Melbourne. he has a pallet worth of those batteries, although I'm not sure if they are new or second hand

Matt

[StudentEV]

Sounds great. It couldn't hurt to have a few spares!

[unheardofinstruments]

I wish I had been more careful choosing donor/host/roller vehicles, a surprising amount of time and money was used up chasing parts and doing repairs to suspension parts, brakes, wheels, rust, paint, windscreen, etc. and although the price was almost free it wasn't worth it when I could have waited for the right one to come along and gotten on with electric vehicle related tinkering and expenses instead. I could have spent more and maybe sold more useful for ICE only bits and recouped the difference and saved on parts too probably had I not gotten a partially stripped roller thinking it would save me some stripping. As with building the cheapest way is to scavenge/gather your materials first, then see what you can make. For a cheap simple build unfortunately old cars are easier in some ways as power steering, locks, windows and computers etc aren't so common but with age comes difficulty finding parts and general decay.
An old rule of thumb of projects; take what you think it will cost and triple it, and as far as time time you think it will take, triple it again. ('Then see if you are much closer' I would add) [:s]
One can only plug on and enjoy the ride all the more for the blood sweat and tears and swearing.

[StudentEV]

There has certainly been some swearing!

In the interest of keeping under budget and saving the project I've sent emails to all the Daihatsu wreckers I could find enquiring about new driver's side door, rear hatch (not 100% necessary, rust could come up OK with sanding) and new locks with keys - though I'm told locksmiths can make new keys with the vehicle's vin number. Has anyone heard of anything like this?

Then there would be two dents above both rear wheels - One I'm fairly certain will tap out, the other will need a bit of work, but if I'm going to repaint the car it might not be too bad.

So all is not lost, but I'm still on the hunt for potential replacement host vehicles just in case.

[unheardofinstruments]

The code on the drivers side door lock barrel, on the inside is usually the way to get a `new' key cut from code. Sometimes the VIN sent to the factory via a dealer will get the code sent back with a bit of other info such as options built in at the factory, paint codes, origin, etc.

[StudentEV]

Solid advice there, thanks!

I also left a note for my neighbour to call me if he's interested in selling his Daihatsu, it's an ugly yellow thing but at least I would have keys and wouldn't have to pretend to be a panel beater.

[poprock]

Sorry about your donor car; suggest checking out the Daihatsu sirion. Removable subframe giving open access to all drive train parts. 4 frame bolts, steering shaft, 4 srut bolts, brake calipers wiring and its on the ground .How do I upload pics?

[Johny]

I was thinking about cheap DC-DC to suuport the 12V battery.

Power supplies that specify a 100-240VAC input range - not switchable (important) should easily run off somewhere between 80 VDC and 330 VDC.

12V 5A laptop chargers are available on eBay for around $7.50.
Four of them in parallel would supply 20A.
They may need splitting apart to change the output voltage slightly and in that respect a purchase initiially of only one would be prudent (in case it's potted or unchangable - unlikely). Maybe 15V would be a better start.

These are always available so no need to dive in early - just a thought.

[StudentEV]

Sorry about your donor car; suggest checking out the Daihatsu sirion. Removable subframe giving open access to all drive train parts. 4 frame bolts, steering shaft, 4 srut bolts, brake calipers wiring and its on the ground .How do I upload pics?

Thanks for the tip, I think I've decided the donor is manageable, and I'll consider it a lesson learned for future projects!

You should be able to upload images if you post a reply (not a quick reply) by uploading them, they can't be bigger than 200kb though so you'll probably need to resize them with photoshop or even paint. OR you can host them on another site and use the link.

12V 5A laptop chargers are available on eBay for around $7.50.
Four of them in parallel would supply 20A.

Great idea John, thanks.

Though you'll have to nurse me through the electronic side of things, I thought a 2A charger would suffice to replace the dc-dc?

This is one I've found that has been used in a project in Canada:

Raider 12V 2A

Apparently it charges the accessory battery slightly quicker than the traction pack and switches off to float the voltage at 13.5V

Though it cost less than $20 in the states it would cost almost $60 to get it here, but still cheaper than a DC-DC. Though this amp thing has got me stumped...

[StudentEV]

Or possibly one of these if I do need 20A?

12v 20a charger ebay

[evric]

Very good price.

[Johny]

Though you'll have to nurse me through the electronic side of things, I thought a 2A charger would suffice to replace the dc-dc?

OK - I may have the wrong idea of which way you are going with 12V.
Two options:
1. Charge the 12V batery and run it alone when driving.

2. Run a DC-DC that can handle the normal car 12V load with battery as legal backup (hazard lights etc) an d "starting" supply.

The laptop chargers was my proposal for option 2.

[StudentEV]

AH I see, that makes sense. I should read back over my thread more.

Yes definitely something to look into, it would be better as someone mentioned power from the traction pack through a dc-dc (laptop chargers maybe) will give better consistent voltage. And the 20A/2A thing all makes sense to me now! Thanks!

A silly question maybe, can I run a 110VAC charger from my 125VDC traction pack? While the car is running? Possibly the Raider charger I posted earlier...

Here are some pics of my amateur panel work today - all after photos, I didn't have the forsight to take pics before:



First dent - I took the trim off the inside of the boot and pushed it out with my hand, voila! Dent gone!



This one I did the same as the first, but as there is a crease in the panel I'll need to do a little more to even it all out. Thinking about drilling a hole and putting a screw in to pull the depression out below the crease then puttying it up when I paint the car... Silly idea???? I can't seem to get inside the panel to push it out.



Dent in the front door. I used two screws of the right diameter so I could pull this one out with pliers and the other tool (the name escapes me, let's call them 'squirrel grips'), but lots of creases and funny spots. Ideally I still want a new door, but no wreckers I've been in touch with have a Handi handy Is it possible to separate the inner and outer panels from a door to work on the panel?? If not I think this one's a lost cause.

Also I had a go at the 'WD40 and scourer' approach to rust removal, and it was surprisingly effective. The surface rust came right off, the proper rust will need a different approach so I'm getting a grinder and sander bit for my drill to tackle those.

With the issue of no keys for the locks, I realised it's an electric car and I won't need a key to start it. So I may be able to just replace the door locks (barrels) with a second hand set and be done with it.

So yes, unless a handi in perfect nick comes up and I can sell mine for the same price, I'm pushing ahead with this car.

[Johny]

You do need to keep the ignition lock as there is a requirement that the keys can't be removed while the traction system is engaged. It's also prudent anti-theft.
If you have a lock out of the car, take it to Statewide Locksmiths in Ringwood (right next to the railway station). They are about the best price I have found and very helpful. Better still take a door lock AND the ignition lock in case they are different.

For rust removel, I have two approaches - both are equally effective.
One is the standard Rust Converter (Bunnings sell it). Where it changes the oxide into a grey dust.
The other is a product called Penetrol which is it's own primer as well. It doesn't like spray paints over it though. There's a can of this stuff in the Vogue - inside doors etc. It forms a pretty solid epoxy-like seal - similar to fish oil but faster

The Rust Converter is a good way, then prime and paint. It's also fast.

That door looks like it could handle de-rusting, then some slight taps to get the creases below the normal line of the door, then lots of sanding to make the following step stick. Then a heaped fistful of bog. Sand and paint. If a better door comes along later - fine.