StudentEV's Daihatsu Conversion

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StudentEV
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StudentEV's Daihatsu Conversion

Post by StudentEV » Wed, 31 Oct 2012, 06:43

Hi all,

Myself and some friends from uni are converting a Daihatsu Handivan to electric.

Inspired by the Forkenswift We have set a budget of $1000 for the build.

We so far have the car (1981 Daihatsu Handivan, weighing a mean 500kg, an electric forklift motor (48V) and have spent $400. I'm hoping to make a small amount of that back by selling some of the parts we've removed.

You can check out our blog for a short video, more coming soon.

So as you can see we have a tiny amount of money left for the rest of the build process - Our performance goals have been revised to 'whatever we can get'.

Next on our list is to get the motor mounted and connected to the gearbox, and then to find some batteries.

Any EV owners with a sketchy set of lead acids to get rid of? We're your guys.

Anyway, I will update this post as we go, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the project.

Tom

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Post by Richo » Wed, 31 Oct 2012, 21:06

Parts you still need:

Controller
Vacuum pump for brakes
Contactor
Fuse
Heater for demisting

Would be tough for under $1000
e-bay for second hand controllers perhaps.

8 x 12V40Ah Would only give a range of of 10-15km and cost $750+ new
So second hand I think would be a must.
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Post by jonescg » Wed, 31 Oct 2012, 22:05

Patrick has some lead acid batteries from E-max scooters up for sale. try him on info@electricautos.com.au

I hope you're in Perth because shipping them across the country won't be very economical.
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Post by StudentEV » Wed, 31 Oct 2012, 23:10

Thanks for the info guys.

Richo, do you mean 8 12v or 8 6v batteries? Pardon my lack of electrical knowledge, but I thought we only needed to make up 48v... I'm told lower voltage batteries are better because of higher amp hours... Could be wrong? But that's what we're aiming for to achieve a better range.

We are also planning to modify a golf cart controller, looking for a cheap one on ebay.

Jonescg, unfortunately I'm in Melbourne. I've had some offers of donation of old batteries but they're all interstate!

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Post by Richo » Thu, 01 Nov 2012, 00:20

Watt.Hours (Wh) = Batteries x Voltage(V) x Amp.Hours(Ah)
Wh = 8 x 12V x 40Ah = 3840Wh
Wh = 8 x 6V x 80Ah = 3840Wh

As you can see from the above formula dropping the voltage and increasing the amp.hours makes no difference to the TOTAL capacity and thus range.

48V is it's nominal voltage if you want to go faster then you need more voltage.
Golf carts and forklifts aren't renowned for thier speed which is why 48V is probably ok for that application and not for a road going ev.

Try look for an old Curtis or Kelly controller un-modified as this would probably be better than a golf cart controller that is modified.
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Post by KDRYAN » Sat, 03 Nov 2012, 12:12

Hi StudentEV's

I have sent you a PM re controller

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Post by jonescg » Sat, 03 Nov 2012, 16:27

I also have a 1200 A DC motor controller for sale if you need one.
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Post by StudentEV » Fri, 08 Mar 2013, 19:37

Thanks for the info so far lads. The holiday period has set us back several months as we have not been able to get together and work on the car.

Like everyone has told me, it is going to take much longer than expected and we will most likely exceed our budget, which is disheartening. I do, however, understand that conversions we were basing ours on were done in the US and Canada where things aren't so expensive.

We are still pushing on and I have a far more solid idea of what is required for the build. We will definitely exceed our budget, if not in parts then on engineers and registration. But we will try to keep it as low as possible still, and keeping the build slow, waiting for the right part at the right price will suit us.

It is apparent to me that we need to test and possibly recondition our electric motor. Is there anyone you know of in Melbourne that could help us with this, or has anybody done it themselves? I have started taking it apart but I'm afraid I might wreck it. I have a battery that I will test it with first, then pull it apart if necessary.

Should I just look for the motor to spin freely? And even if it does, is it worth pulling it apart for a clean?

Cheers
Tom

PS On the off chance anyone has a drill press they might like to lend to us for the adapter plate? Again we're in Melbourne. It seems like most of you are in Perth so perhaps not! I will post some photos soon.
Thanks


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Post by Johny » Fri, 08 Mar 2013, 19:51

Hi Tom. Yes, check that the motor spins freely by hand.
Take care if running it up from a battery.
Even a 12V battery can spin an unloaded series DC motor to destruction.
Check the commutator and brushes by eye if you can get at them.
This guide may help.
http://www.pdma.com/pdfs/Articles/DC_Motor_Analysis.pdf

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Post by StudentEV » Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 05:43

That's a great guide! I'll have it open whilst I'm taking the motor apart.

Also could anyone tell me if my motor is series wound?

The details on the side (it's from a forklift) are:

TTL160C
48V S2 60min
98 A
1920 min-1 max: 1000 min-1
(the 'max' figure might have another 0 after the 1000, hard to tell as there's a scraped off part of the label)
Class H

Code: 2319713

Cheers


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Post by BigMouse » Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 15:36

How many terminals does your motor have? 2? 3? 4?

I'd imagine there'd be another zero after the "max" value. Wouldn't make sense for it to be less than the rated value.

Then again, DC isn't my specialty.
Last edited by BigMouse on Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 04:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Richo » Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 20:42

2319713 48v NIKKO DRIVE MOTOR 29010-31K20
www.comlec.co.uk
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Post by Richo » Thu, 14 Mar 2013, 20:45

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Post by StudentEV » Tue, 02 Apr 2013, 23:17

A quick update: Might have sourced some batteries, details to follow when I've got them here, don't want to count my chickens before they hatch.

If it all works out we'll be running a higher voltage, possibly even 125V and should be able to meet our range target of more than 25km.

Other things, looking at running an accessory battery under the bonnet to even out the weight of the batteries in the back (the cells we might get are too tall to fit in the engine bay), and rather than using a dc-dc converter. I have found a suitable battery for scrap price and just have to pick it up.

Also purchased a second hand inertia switch ($13) for emergency cutoff in case of a crash - My first purchase since I got the motor.

Tom


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Post by Richo » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 00:47

Actually you need the 12V accessory battery anyway as per NCOP14 to be on the road.
You will also still need a DC/DC, alternator, solar panel to keep the 12V battery charged.

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Post by StudentEV » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 00:54

Ah I see, I was planning on using a separate charger, bad idea?

The accessory battery was going to be a deep cycle 65ah...

I do, however, like the idea of a solar panel to keep it charged, definitely adds to the environmental appeal!

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Post by Simon » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 02:03

Not a bad idea, it will work OK as long as the battery has enough AH to cope with all the 12V loads.

Something to consider is without a dc-dc converter lights will be dimmer, windscreen wipers slower etc.

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 02:29

Nice project
I have a source for Ni Cads pretty cheap but not that cheap
I also have a solution for regenerating poor lead acids ie; desulfating
good choice of van
the ecomodder site has a homebrew igbt controller project

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Post by 4Springs » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 03:05

65AH sounds reasonable, but you'll need to do the maths. Think of a rainy dim day, when you will have your headlights, demister & wipers all going at the same time. On my car this adds up like so:

Lights 400W (remember to add up all the lights!)
Demister 100W
Wipers - not sure, say 100W?
Other things include your vacuum pump (for brakes), contactor(s), stereo set to max (it is a Student EV!).

600W/12V = 50A
So your 65AH battery would run this load for an hour and a bit. If you had your charger on board then it would automatically charge whenever you plug in to charge the traction pack.

Some people use an alternator to charge the battery whenever the motor is turning. You'd be able to pick one up for free from the tip, and it would give you a more healthy 13.8 volts. You'd be able to have a much smaller (lighter, cheaper) 12V battery then.

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Post by StudentEV » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 03:19

Yes well I am in Melbourne so we definitely get a few of those dim, rainy days! And I am partial to some sitting-in-traffic sing alongs.

So I see everyone's point. The alternator sounds nifty as well. I actually gave the original alternator away for scrap with the engine! Idiot!

I guess it is something I will look in to when we have the battery pack and whether we can get a dc dc converter under budget.

Re: the diy controller, I wouldn't say it'd be impossible for me to build, but probably beyond my scope of knowledge. I wouldn't have a clue what to do if it didn't work. So once we know what voltage we'll be running I'll search for a suitable second hand controller.

If we used an alternator, could I use the car's original battery?? I still have it handy. It says 'good' on it so I'm assuming it is, though I haven't tested it yet.

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Post by 4Springs » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 13:51

I ended up using a 9AH battery (the same type that my lawnmower uses). This is nice and small, giving me more space to fit things under the bonnet. There is a disadvantage though, it does run flat after about 4-5 days of inactivity. This is because there is a certain amount of current drawn even when the key is turned off. Things like the clock and radio. My battery is charged (from a DC-DC converter) whenever I am plugged into the wall socket, or also when I am driving. So if I'm not using the car for a few days, I leave it (the car) plugged into a timer, which gives it a few hours charge each day.

So it should be fine to use your original battery. Just be careful to not let it get too discharged - it will not handle that as well as a deep cycle battery.

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Post by 4Springs » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 13:58

By the way, I'll be selling my batteries at some stage. 12 x 140AH 12V deep cycle (AGMs). I don't imagine it will be in time for your project though, I'm hoping for another year or two out of them yet...

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Post by Richo » Wed, 03 Apr 2013, 20:43

StudentEV wrote:Re: the diy controller, I wouldn't say it'd be impossible for me to build, but probably beyond my scope of knowledge. I wouldn't have a clue what to do if it didn't work.


I did have a quick look into this but the cost of a one-off DIY controller is not any cheaper than a 2nd hand controller assuming it was available when needed.
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Post by antiscab » Thu, 04 Apr 2013, 00:49

StudentEV wrote: Ah I see, I was planning on using a separate charger, bad idea?

The accessory battery was going to be a deep cycle 65ah...

I do, however, like the idea of a solar panel to keep it charged, definitely adds to the environmental appeal!


most switchmode chargers will run off DC

if it has an input range of 90vac - 284vac, it will probably run off the 125v battery directly

if however, it has an input range of 90vac - 130vac and 200vac - 284vac, it will have a voltage doubler on it that won't work with DC

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Post by Richo » Thu, 04 Apr 2013, 21:14

So what your saying is if he gets the right 12V charger he can:
1. Use it to plug in the wall and charge the 12V directly.
2. Carry it on board and charge the 12V from the traction pack while driving.
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