mattW's Electric motorcycle conversion Blog

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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mattW
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Post by mattW » Wed, 11 Jun 2008, 04:36

After picking up my donor bike on the weekend and ordering parts from the Kelly website I've officially launched my Elixxer electric motorcycle conversion journal at the DIY Electric Car Blog. I'll be documenting and journaling the process on the blog and trying to explain it to make it easier for people starting out. There is an RSS feed if you want to keep up to date about it.

I've written a few editorial style posts while I was planning my conversion if you are interested as well, just scroll down the previous posts.

Enjoy,
Matt

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Post by malfunction » Wed, 11 Jun 2008, 19:06

will look forward to seeing this thing finished
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Post by Rodney » Thu, 17 Jul 2008, 02:35

Hi Matt,
I was wondering what motor(s) you were thinking of going with for your Motorbike conversion. I'm planning on using 1 or 2 Perm PMG-132 motors, at 72V nominal. The best quote I have so far is $925 + $135 postage (USD). There is a possibility to save a bit with a larger order, although need to be careful about customs.

Regards Rodney :-)
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Post by mattW » Thu, 17 Jul 2008, 07:24

I ordered and received a mars ME0709 through kelly, I think it cost somewhere around the $570 mark...

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Post by evric » Sun, 20 Jul 2008, 03:25

Rodney,
I have just listened to a lecture from an experienced Perm-132 motor user (Rod Muller - Goolwa SA) - and he no longer recommends this motor. Apparently the carbon from the brushes builds up inside the motor and then it cooks. I was going to use this motor as well.
I am now going to use D&D SepEx motor at 72V, which comes in a kit with the Sevcon SEM PPAK controller for $1425.00 USD from Thunderstruck Motors (USA)or Electric Sport (USA). This motor/controller combination allows for true regenerative braking and deceleration. What happens with customs?

Regards Eric.

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Post by Rodney » Sun, 20 Jul 2008, 05:13

Thanks for the Heads up Eric. Unfortunately at 25Kg, the D&D motor will be too heavy and too big for my motorcycle application. Also the effeciency is not great, as is the case with most motors with field windings, compared with permanent magnets.

I will have to see if I can find out the particulars of the PERM motor problem from Rod Muller. It does seem to be a tough job for such a physically (and thermally) small motor to drive a car, as the continous rating is only 7.2KW. The 150cc motorbike I plan to convert is 8.8KW. I can appreciate that the D&D motor would be more robust in a heavier duty application.

I have been in contact with PERM in Germany, getting more information on the application of the motor. The main (an not well known) issue to be careful with is the rotation of the motor. It can operate in both directions up to 48V, with very similar performance. However above 48V the motor must be run clockwise (as viewed from the shaft end).

Also of interest is that the PERM motor can be run up to 450A for "seconds" with temperature monitoring, which should give about 85Nm of torque, (about 29KW at 72V). By comparison my 150cc petrol motor only produces 9.8Nm at 7500 RPM. It will be very tempting to push the TS LFP90 battery, but I need to keep the power to weight ratio below the LAMS 150KW/tonne limit. The voltage drop on the Thundersky cells will probably do the job for me.

Regards Rodney :-)

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Post by sauron_3746 » Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 01:43

Hi There,

Nice plans with the Perm, i am thinking of using a perm to electrify my 97' KLX300. But why oh why did they have to make the drive direction for 72V clockwise.. What a pain.. Just wondering how you planned to set yours up? Because if I put a perm outside the frame with the sprocket inside it will block the foot pegs.. I thought about flipping the wheel over and modifying the swing arm to take a sprocket on the right and brake on the left.. Or, i can modify the foot pegs to sit out further from the bike..

Have you got these issues??

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Post by Rodney » Tue, 05 Aug 2008, 03:29

Hi Sauron,
Yes I have the same issues. I was originally going to flip the wheel over, (as it's a drum brake, no major swing arm mods). I was also going to use the clutch lever to control the rear brake, (scooter style). However I am quite enjoying having a foot brake at the traffic lights. The Clutch lever could also be easily adapted to control regenerative braking. So I am now leaning towards mounting the motor on the outside of the swing arm. This would affect the pillion footpegs only, however I am planning on not having a pillion, as I may need the weight capacity for the batteries, which may be mounted pannier style. It all depends on how much weight will come out with the motor and gearbox, etc.

I would also like to use a toothed drive belt, as this is more efficient, less maintainance, and quieter than the chain drive. But that will all depend on what I can get my hands on. I know Gates makes some very good belts.

At present I still need the bike in one piece to complete my Advanced Riding course to get my restricted license. Once that is done, I will pull the motor, and weigh the bike again.

Cheers Rodney

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Post by mattW » Tue, 19 Aug 2008, 19:10

Well the bike has been on the back burner for the past few months because of the pointy end of my college semester and moving house. But it now lives in the garage of my good friend tim and this weekend I got back on the horse and got some work done. The front brakes were seized so I took apart and cleaned the front pads and put it back together. Just need to get a brake bleeding kit, to get them working properly again. Here are a couple of photos:
Image
Image
Sorry about the image quality, my camera battery died so I had to take photo's on my phone.
Anyway we also set out about getting rid of the parts of the wiring harness that weren't necessary. We basically decided we'd keep everything at the handlebar end for now (lights, gauges etc) and redo all the cables from the bars to the rest of the bike (i.e the battery connection and rear brake/indicator lights). This meant we could get rid of a whole bunch of messy unnecessary wires in one big go which was nice. we'll redo the rest in a fortnight or so. Finally we gave the frame a clean to get rid of all the greasy black gunk that had built up. We got most of it with soapy water, but I'll be picking up some degreaser to get into the tricky spots. Here is the shiny washed frame:
Image

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Post by Richo » Tue, 19 Aug 2008, 21:13

Any chance you could measure the main compartment volume?
This would help other eVer's work out what will fit in a bike.

You would need to measure the lengths shown below:
Image

Thanks,

Richo
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Post by Richo » Mon, 25 Aug 2008, 05:27

Also weights would be handy...
1. Before stripping (Published weight would be ok)
2. As it is now stripped down.
3. OR Weights of all ICE parts not used anymore.

Thanks,

Richo
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Post by Coolmobility » Fri, 29 Aug 2008, 01:35

Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum but have been investigating electric motor options for powering my yacht and working with various hub motors for my wheelchair project.

You not only have some interesting ideas, projects and gear, but as a bonus - you are Aussies! (most otther forums I'm on are American)

Have you guys considered the Mars motors (brushed or brushless) http://www.marselectricllc.com/index.html US$450 for motors.
Last edited by Coolmobility on Thu, 28 Aug 2008, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Richo » Sat, 30 Aug 2008, 04:27

A mars motor is a good motor for a bike.
Here's a nice example of one:
http://www.evalbum.com/1492
Should give nice reliable performance.

However I'm trying to get "true" 250cc performance and a mars won't cut it.

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Post by Electrocycle » Mon, 20 Oct 2008, 00:44




hehe, that's my one :)

About to make a thread on here...
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Post by whatisthis » Tue, 04 Nov 2008, 18:36

Hi,
I have been try to find the time to build an EV for the past five years. Decided on a bike and based on the Electric GPR bought a Aprilia RS125 as the donnor. Originally I was going to make it AC so top speed wasn't limited by voltage and the higher efficiencies. But with the Aussie dollar dropping so far I have had to reevaluate things and am now considering a Perm PMG-132 motor. As the chain is already on the right hand side the clock wise rotation of the motor is perfectImage.
Cheers

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Post by antiscab » Tue, 04 Nov 2008, 19:20

if you are going to go for chain drive, make sure you either use a motor intended for a chain drive, or reinforce the motor for side loading.
most motors aren't designed with side loading in mind.
The bearings will wear out much faster if you dont account for side loading.

im liking the aprilla RS125.
im considering as my next project taking a US 5.75kw Ali induction motor wound for 147v delta, and building a VFD behind a 1400v DC bus for 3xTn at 6x rated speed (or 90kw :D).

but for now, to many other projects.

Matt
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Post by woody » Tue, 04 Nov 2008, 20:22

antiscab wrote: im considering as my next project taking a US 5.75kw Ali induction motor wound for 147v delta, and building a VFD behind a 1400v DC bus for 3xTn at 6x rated speed (or 90kw :D).
That's a lot of lithium cells :-)

Hopefully they will form a nice barrier between 9000rpms of aluminium spinning death and your internal organs !

cheers,
Woody
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Post by antiscab » Tue, 04 Nov 2008, 21:07

lol, yeh it is a few.
i was thinking 600 of those K2 26650P cells Ian reviewed, 1400v 5AH = 7kwh.
twice range of a vectrix....oh to dream lol

i might be a bit wishful in thinking a 5.75kw motor could do 9000rpm, though tuarn bench tested a 2kw one i think? at 9000rpm.

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Post by antiscab » Tue, 04 Nov 2008, 21:11

oops my math is a bit off...1400v 5AH would mean 880 cells or there abouts.

Matt
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Post by Richo » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 04:32

The limiting factor I have found is the width of the bike.
My measurements would indicate a 90S or possibly a 90L motor will fit it.
They are about 2.2kW max.
5kW and above will be a 132 frame.
Which is too big for any bike except a trike.
Defn won't fit in the Aprilia RS125.

Why get it from the US?
It is really special?

Wait a year or so and the Hyosung bikes should be dirt cheap second hand.

9000 RPM would prob need different bearings.
They prob would do ok for a while...

Oh don't put the motor in length wise it won't work.
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Post by antiscab » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 05:46

didnt have to be from the US, but i does have to be low voltage.
if i used a 415v motor, id need a DC bus of 3400v....starting to get a bit big...though feel the power between ur legs :D

i was thinking of getting the a motor that was originally intended for 208v star, rather than do a rewind (i would be buying it brand new in any case).
Though on second thought i think a high frequency motor from metric mind might be more up to the task.
or maybe even an AC propulsion 150kw unit :D

as you can tell, definately into pipe dream territory, maybe in 18months when the mr2 stops taxing every cent i have.

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Post by Richo » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 06:11

As a hint the sub 3kW are 240V Delta 415V star...
And why stop at one...

I got a 90S off e-bay for $75 (surplus new stock)
Should rev out to 6k no prob.

90kW controller is doable Image

So is that pipe shorter for you now Image
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Post by antiscab » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 06:25

lol, i know....240v x 6.5 x 1.414 = 2200v DC bus at sag (so 2.5vpc) (so i can put it in breakdown at 6xrpm)

lol, if i were to use 4000v IGBTs, not alot of current, say 250A for good measure?

if i had that $15k i started my mr2 project with again, id be busy ordering stuff rather than dreaming :)

pipes getting shorter.

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Post by woody » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 06:26

A Boss Hoss should fit a larger frame motor (200?), once you pull out the 350 cube Chev V8 :-)

I'm not sure they'd be cheap second hand though...
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Post by antiscab » Wed, 05 Nov 2008, 06:31

"The power is finally delivered to the rear wheel via a maintenance free cog belt."

bahaha now theres some optimistic thinking.
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