barnard's Toyota MR2 - now Mr240

Post by **barney** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010, 23:52

Hi everyone

[feb'14:Old URIs now converted to new location, http://electric-handmade-car.id.au]

It's time I posted some details about Mr240, I bought the donor car over a year ago and have driven it waiting for the Oz dollar to improve from the 62c (its 92 as I write, hard to fathom it all!) and it was worth the wait.. eg the battery pack went from about $13k to about $7k when we bought it - and started the conversion - late last year.

'He' is nearly complete, thanks to the great help I've been getting from the EV Shop here in Perth. Actually they may have done more than me, now I think about it

At least someone knows what they are doing!

Regardless of the exchange rate the cost seems to keep going up, so maybe not all the planned improvements will happen, but I'll try and get some photos up here shortly, and a list of the stages done and waiting to complete.

I have lots of questions, perhaps I should start a new page asking about them. In the meantime I'm hoping that I can edit this entry shortly and add the index and pics, otherwise it might be in post #2.

*****
[Hmmm, now found Edit under Post Options, but can't upload any of 3 small 640x480 40K images...
am now dealing with Andrew on this, awaiting feedback]
Feb'14: Aha. Seems the new Forum s'ware allows uploads for me… I'll edit and see if I can repair the broken links...
*****

I'd welcome your comments and feedback, and you are also welcome to see a more detailed process described on Mr240's blog, called electric-handmade-car. The (new) URL is in my Login prefs AND I'll give it in full here:

http://electric-handmade-car.id.au/

Cheers, Barney

Mr240 tail view (how to change that logo to read MR240? Shame I'm not a panel beater either...)

Removing the inlet filler was very satisfying...

Exhaust parts weighed a ton, it seemed...

Post by **antiscab** » Sat, 10 Apr 2010, 05:29

congrats barney

Post by **barney** » Sat, 10 Apr 2010, 20:12

Some Pics of progress:

NOPE - Cant insert an uploaded pic, error every time:
[Reported to Andrew, removing extraneous stuff from here... bdc]

In the meantime, a URI for image:

Post by **antiscab** » Sat, 10 Apr 2010, 20:17

whats with the exhaust?

Website · Post by **Simon** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 06:36

Hi!
Saw your car at the Sun Fair, its looking really good Barney!
What are the planned improvements you are thinking of doing?
antiscab the exhaust tips are for the afterburner

Not really, they have a 240V plug inside. male one side and female the other (for visual effect only).

Post by **barney** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 07:15

Simon wrote: Hi!
Saw your car at the Sun Fair, its looking really good Barney!
What are the planned improvements you are thinking of doing?

Hi Simon, I hadn't thought of an afterburner, to be sure, but thanks for the comments! I had a couple of plans, nothing fixed yet... like I was thinking that the MR2 logo needs to read MR240; I'd like to update the lights to clear covers (eBay looks likely here) and the bulbs to LEDs (havent found an Oz supplier for those bulbs yet) and Id love to install some slinky LED headlights.

And a real challenge would be a large colour LCD display like the LEAF or Prius etc with some graphical interface for motor and battery management - preferably one that just plugs in somewhere! That's probably a pipe dream, but then so was throwing away the exhaust system

My partner and I have both driven it briefly and she felt the steering was still a little heavy, so I might look for ideas here... It may turn out that low rolling-resistance tyres help enough, I don't have any idea. Or maybe there is a power steering technology available AND both money left and space under the bonnet to install it! After all, I want her to be able to drive it without any problems, and although she wont need the clutch anymore (except for reverse, of course), easy steering would may it more like the latest cars to drive.

But then again maybe we will just drive it for a while and enjoy passing petrol stations except when we need air in those tyres

Cheers, barney

Post by **antiscab** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 09:27

i thought the sw20 already had power steering (already run by electricity no less).

perhaps the amount of help is adjustable?

Matt

Post by **Electrocycle** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 17:27

The SW20's I've driven haven't had power steering.

Post by **barney** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 21:20

Sadly I have to agree with Electrocycle, Mr240 is like most other SW20s... I wish it were that simple, I could just turn up the help to full! Perhaps there is a button also for 'Convert to EV'!!

)
Sorry, but thanks for the idea tho, it was a great thought! Couldnt find an emoticon to convey that feeling...

I gather the newer MR2s have a complete self-contained electric pump, fluid chamber etc for power steering, so altho it is expensive - since you need to swap teh rack as well - it isnt too hard to fit... Anyone know if this is the case?

Cheers, Barney

Post by **Electrocycle** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 23:49

it's fairly likely that the rack and bottom end of the steering column can be swapped over fairly easily - but I haven't personally looked at them.

I was also under the impression that it was the later MR2s with the electric power steering.

Post by **Squiggles** » Sun, 11 Apr 2010, 23:50

What size tyres are you using?

Post by **EV2Go** » Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 03:02

what size or how wide? size won't make it steer any lighter but wider tyres will.

Post by **Squiggles** » Mon, 12 Apr 2010, 13:48

The lower the profile the harder the steering.

Post by **barney** » Wed, 14 Apr 2010, 01:04

Sorry for the delay in replying, my spam filter is hungrier than it should be, so I missed the email ticker..

And thanks for the combined skills, Squiggles and EV2go... I am now gathering 'low rolling resistance' is a relative term? Mr240 has the 'normal' tyres, 185x15(F) and 205x15(R) but I assume between Daniel and myself, because of official 'testing' in the next few weeks, we might well need to replace them

Of course the poor budget at this late stage in the day doesn't have a lot left, nevertheless can you suggest
1. If I can make the steering lighter, without adding a PSU, and how; and
2. whether this is ALSO going to reduce the average car's power consumption?

I probably would do things to make the steering lighter even at the cost of consumption, but I'm hoping they might 'go in the same direction', so to speak... After all, adding power steering would reduce the average consumption as well, so its an easy decision, in that sense.

Cheers, Barney

Post by **Squiggles** » Wed, 14 Apr 2010, 02:52

I am surprised a mid engine car has heavy steering, what sort of weight is on the front wheels?

Have you looked into using a different ratio steering rack, or dare I say it a larger steering wheel?

Post by **Jeff Owen** » Wed, 14 Apr 2010, 02:52

barney wrote:

Of course the poor budget at this late stage in the day doesn't have a lot left, nevertheless can you suggest
1. If I can make the steering lighter, without adding a PSU, and how; and
2. whether this is ALSO going to reduce the average car's power consumption?

You could try running higher tyre pressure. This will also improve range.

Jeff Owen

Post by **barney** » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 06:57

Attempting to add some early pics... Evidence of multiple temperature gauges in the exhaust system of an ICE; the obligatory adaptor plate; how existing cruise control was integrated; what filled the 'transmission tunnel' before we filled it with batteries, etc.

Hmmm,
So far lots of 'file not found's, whether I try to upload here or via the file manager... but we'll work it out. Apologies...

Post by **barney** » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 07:38

Squiggles wrote: I am surprised a mid engine car has heavy steering, what sort of weight is on the front wheels?

Have you looked into using a different ratio steering rack, or dare I say it a larger steering wheel?

Good questions... Dan was talking about the weigh-bridge booking next week, so I must ask for the front to rear ratio then. The book says the 1992 ones were 44 front/ 56 rear. The web reports similar figures for earlier MR2s, but says they got to 50/50 by the time of the 2005 version (when they stopped production), which of course does have a PSU.

We think the battery boxes are such that the weight may be either the same or slightly more on the front... but without the PSU of the later models to ease the load, we may have just made the steering a little more challenging for those not used to it. This is only a guess, btw; and I would not like to be the person proposing that we move the rear battery box back a few cm, even if it makes all the difference! It might be more valuable to simply install a PSU or just a different rack. Not sure where to start looking for different racks, any suggestions are welcome, but Ill let you know what I find on the topic.

A larger steering wheel is a great idea... it was easier to do in more sedan-like cars without a steering wheel adjustment that lets you drop it into your lap already.. In the circumstances I am still inclined to look at racks and electric PSUs, but neither would be as simple and probably as cheap though!

Cheers, b

Post by **barney** » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 07:54

Jeff Owen wrote:
barney wrote:

Of course the poor budget at this late stage in the day doesn't have a lot left, nevertheless can you suggest
1. If I can make the steering lighter, without adding a PSU, and how; and
2. whether this is ALSO going to reduce the average car's power consumption?

You could try running higher tyre pressure. This will also improve range.

Jeff Owen

Hey Jeff and thanks for this - another elegant and simple solution which is easy to forget; I read somewhere of a Bridgestone study, iirc, that found that 93.5% of European cars have under-inflated tires! I assume we are no better?

Cheers, b

Post by **Nevilleh** » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 12:49

Maybe the steering rack off the later model (with power steering) will fit? A wrecker might let you compare both.
I fitted the electric pump from an MR2 to my BMW.
It draws about 50 watts, so won't make much difference to the "fuel" consumption.

Post by **Squiggles** » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 14:07

barney wrote:.

Not sure where to start looking for different racks, any suggestions are welcome, but Ill let you know what I find on the topic.

I would start by determining the ratio of the existing rack, then start looking for any with slightly lower ratios. If you find any there is probably a good chance they could be adapted.

I wonder if it is possible to have the original ratio changed?

Post by **barney** » Tue, 08 Jun 2010, 07:47

Progress continues...
first, the MR240v beast is drive-able, and I have been doing so for a few weeks. That EV grin is a hard thing to stop, even after this (albeit quite small) time. We have worked hard on getting that mileage figure up, and not had a lot of success. With Daniel's help, the following have been implemented:
a. 4 wheel suspension/wheel alignment (bad toe-out in rear, small toe-in at front, both corrected)
b. checked for signs of friction in wheels, gearbox (nothing obvious found)
c. new tyres, 15" diameter maintained, as lower profile reduced rolling resistance (RR) according to comment above
d. tyre pressures currently at 38psi instead of recommended 30
e. learning to keep windows up over 55kph
f. smaller number plate with better profile installed at front (but it is not yet attached flat onto the duco!)
g. All under-car airflow covers have been replaced
h. learning about pulse and glide as a driving technique (presumably effective but unhelpful for fellow road users who prefer stable car speeds around them...)
Not yet done:
- seal off the front radiator intake, since it is still the air cond radiator location, but I might halve it
- cut and polish (

)

Observations so far:
The usage seems to have stabilised at around 180-190Wh/km. It was higher before the 4 wheel alignment (about 200) and nothing else seems to have had much effect, except when I accelerate too much. That has a BIG effect!

Barney

Post by **barney** » Tue, 08 Jun 2010, 08:00

Question about a chromed 'electric' emblem for the MR240v?

Anyone able to suggest a source of some ways to add signage to the rear of the MR240v? I'd love something saying 'electric', or even All-electric, but can't find any emblems or chrome letters even, with a quick search. An alternative might be to cut letters into the planned plastic cover between the new rear lights.... Here is progress so far...

The new altezza-style lights are installed but the older rear garnish between the lights is not the same shape as the new one. So far its just a handcut temporary solution; and I have dropped the old 'MR2' logo back in but it will go as soon as.... Currently looking for quotes for a translucent plastic to cover the whole area between the lights; when the LED light strips arrive they will fit above and below the centre horizontal bar, straight onto the now white garnish, and behind the new panel... the whole panel will light up when you hit reverse!

Barney

Post by **KDRYAN** » Tue, 08 Jun 2010, 11:44

"ELECTRIC" emblems are available from cloudelectric.com and go to emblems & decals
These emblems are chrome on black background.

Post by **EClubman** » Tue, 08 Jun 2010, 13:01

Excellent stuff Barnard.

h. Pulse and glide - great for petrol powered hypermilers, not that great for electric.
Petrol motors are at their most efficient when working hard - the pulse - rather than cruising.
Electric motors have a much wider range of efficient use, though when they are working hard (high amps) the resistance losses are at their greatest (P=I^2R). Basically, Electric motors are more efficient at cruising.
The glide, however, will save you "fuel" regardless of your power source.
Bear in mind, however, you are not doing anyone any favours by driving radically differently to the rest of the traffic flow.

Mark