So many pipes. It's great that the battery will be liquid cooled, but it seems to me that there will be hundreds of potential places where coolant could leak out. Ask Chris Jones about leaking battery modules.
Will the coolant be distilled water based, or some other relatively low conducting liquid?
Francisco's Electric Pajero
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coulomb
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
-
francisco.shi
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- Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Leaks are a concern. The joints at the end of the pipes have two orings. I am also (seriously) considering potting the ends of the pipes and the manifold.
I will probably be using glycol coolant.
What I am planning to do is to test the battery without coolant and make sure everything functions correctly before potting the ends. I could also use a soft potting compound that can be removed in case I need to do repairs.
I guess it is difficult to get good compactness and serviceability. I think the new Tesla modules are also potted but even if they weren't you couldn't easily replace some dead cells.
I will probably be using glycol coolant.
What I am planning to do is to test the battery without coolant and make sure everything functions correctly before potting the ends. I could also use a soft potting compound that can be removed in case I need to do repairs.
I guess it is difficult to get good compactness and serviceability. I think the new Tesla modules are also potted but even if they weren't you couldn't easily replace some dead cells.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Making more progress on the left hand side module.
Got parts ready.
3 more layers to go.
I hope I can finish this module tomorrow.
Most of the time is used wrapping the cells, folding the tabs and cleaning the tabs and applying contact grease.
Got parts ready.
- Cooling plates.
- 20220519_212424.jpg (1.87 MiB) Viewed 536 times
- Mylar for wrapping cells.
- 20220519_212634.jpg (1.52 MiB) Viewed 536 times
- Metal parts.
- 20220519_212520.jpg (1.87 MiB) Viewed 536 times
- Wrapped cells with folded tabs.
- 20220521_213655.jpg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 536 times
- 3 bottom layers. (4P15S)
- 20220521_213649.jpg (1.54 MiB) Viewed 536 times
I hope I can finish this module tomorrow.
Most of the time is used wrapping the cells, folding the tabs and cleaning the tabs and applying contact grease.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Bottom of the left module is assembled and now compressing the cells.
This is the largest module. It should be around 90kg.
I will try to finish the top modules some time this week.
- Bottom left battery module. 4P26S (22kwh)
- 20220522_205257.jpg (1.66 MiB) Viewed 510 times
I will try to finish the top modules some time this week.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Battery module removed from the jig and placed roughly how it will fit in the battery case.
There are still 3 more small modules to go on top similar to the right hand side.
- Rough arrangement of battery modules.
- 20220523_112401.jpg (1.77 MiB) Viewed 493 times
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Finished the 3 top modules.
34S on the right hand side and 44S on the left hand side for a total of 66kwh.
Now just the small center module missing which is 18S.
The separation of the modules is about right so this is the rough size of the battery pack.
I now need to make some plastic spacers to go between the horizontal and vertical blocks, add the bus bars and clamp everything together into two single units. Make sure I can get the bus bars from the terminals of each unit to the right place.
After that I need to get the battery box prototype that is in the car and put the two blocks in and update the drawing. After that i need to get it made and hopefully everything will fit in the car. I still have not thought about how to get all the cooling pipes connected together to ensure I get the same flow thru each string and to make sure I can get the inlet and outlet hoses in an accessible place.
It is getting to the point that it is difficult to visualise this in the CAD model. Some times real parts are easier to figure out.
- Outer battery modules complete.
- 20220531_220722.jpg (2 MiB) Viewed 411 times
- Top view.
- 20220531_220749.jpg (1.74 MiB) Viewed 411 times
Now just the small center module missing which is 18S.
The separation of the modules is about right so this is the rough size of the battery pack.
I now need to make some plastic spacers to go between the horizontal and vertical blocks, add the bus bars and clamp everything together into two single units. Make sure I can get the bus bars from the terminals of each unit to the right place.
After that I need to get the battery box prototype that is in the car and put the two blocks in and update the drawing. After that i need to get it made and hopefully everything will fit in the car. I still have not thought about how to get all the cooling pipes connected together to ensure I get the same flow thru each string and to make sure I can get the inlet and outlet hoses in an accessible place.
It is getting to the point that it is difficult to visualise this in the CAD model. Some times real parts are easier to figure out.
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coulomb
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Wow. All that and more has to fit into one vehicle? It doesn't look possible. It will be interesting to see the installation photos.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
-
francisco.shi
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- Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
- Real Name: Francisco
- Location: Brisbane, Strathpine
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
It does fit. There is a lot of space under the floor. The box that all this is supposed to fit into (according to the CAD model) is already in the car. It is just empty at the moment. If it wasn't because the motors encroach into the battery I could get 100kwh.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Today I made the spacers to go between the modules.
The spacers have grooves to match the pipes on the bottom module and has the shape of the top 3 modules. These spacers keep everything locked so nothing slides.
- Module spacers.
- 20220604_230905.jpg (1.67 MiB) Viewed 334 times
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
Spacers installed. I also made some manifold dummies to see how it will fit. I haven't decides how I will do the liquid routing so I don't want to make the proper manifolds yet.
There were a few difficulties during assembly. I found that I need to come up with a better method of applying the correct compression. I have had to re do the crimping because they were compressed too much and the spacers didn't fit correctly.
I have also added some shields for the bus bars.
If I can get it finished I will try to bring this module on Wednesday to the meeting.
There were a few difficulties during assembly. I found that I need to come up with a better method of applying the correct compression. I have had to re do the crimping because they were compressed too much and the spacers didn't fit correctly.
- 20220612_164247.jpg (1.66 MiB) Viewed 262 times
- 20220612_164226.jpg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 262 times
If I can get it finished I will try to bring this module on Wednesday to the meeting.
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
I got most of the straps done. Just missing bus 3 bus bars (about 200g extra). All the other links are in.
The total weight is 150kg for 31.5kwh (210wh/kg).
The total weight is 150kg for 31.5kwh (210wh/kg).
- Strapped right hand side module.
- 20220615_233806.jpg (1.62 MiB) Viewed 211 times
Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
That's looking rather monstrous! It must feel good to finally be getting the batteries together.
Two questions:
Two questions:
- What will the total battery box weight and capacity be?
- How're you going to lift what's on the table? Is it rigid enough to support its own weight?
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francisco.shi
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero
The block on the table is very strong. If I put a block of wood on each end to hold it off the table I can stand on the middle without any problems. I took it to the AEVA meeting for show and tell. I used a piece of RHS with two straps and an engine hoist to lift it.
The total capacity of the battery will be about 85 kWh. It should weigh about 400kg for the battery modules, about 40kg for the case and about 70kg for each motor. So total going in will be about 585kg. I am hoping the engine, gearbox, transfer case, exhaust and fuel tank will be about 500kg may be more. The fuel tank with fuel alone is 100kg.
It is exciting getting the battery together but there are so many small parts that I need to make and they take a lot of time.
There are 3 bus bars missing in the picture. I have done two already. Still one more to go. There are some isolator blocks to allow the bus bars to go thru the cooling manifolds which I hope I can do tomorrow and then one more link on the back and it should all be done except for the real cooling manifolds and the BMS boards.
The block that goes on the other side has onr bus bar that is a bit complicated and I still haven't got a good solution for it but will see how it goes.
The total capacity of the battery will be about 85 kWh. It should weigh about 400kg for the battery modules, about 40kg for the case and about 70kg for each motor. So total going in will be about 585kg. I am hoping the engine, gearbox, transfer case, exhaust and fuel tank will be about 500kg may be more. The fuel tank with fuel alone is 100kg.
It is exciting getting the battery together but there are so many small parts that I need to make and they take a lot of time.
There are 3 bus bars missing in the picture. I have done two already. Still one more to go. There are some isolator blocks to allow the bus bars to go thru the cooling manifolds which I hope I can do tomorrow and then one more link on the back and it should all be done except for the real cooling manifolds and the BMS boards.
The block that goes on the other side has onr bus bar that is a bit complicated and I still haven't got a good solution for it but will see how it goes.