4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

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4Springs
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4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by 4Springs »

I've bought myself a Leyland 255 to convert to electric.
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The power specification for the diesel engine is 45 kW @ 2200 RPM. An online calculator tells me that the torque is therefore about 200 Nm.
The weight of the tractor is about 2.7 tonnes.

Thinking about what motor to use, here are some considerations:
  1. The motor should be sealed against straw and dirt. Straw could be a fire hazard, and the motor will probably be open to the environment, which can be dirty. Water is a distinct possibility.
  2. The continuous rated power should be 40 kW or higher. Unlike most cars, tractors are sometimes used close to their rated power for long periods of time.
  3. Engine braking is essential. Tractor brakes are generally terrible, and operators rely on engine braking for safe operation on hills. Regenerative braking is the obvious way to make this happen.
  4. Throttle must control RPM. The tractor uses a hand throttle as well as a foot throttle. You set the throttle lever to a particular motor speed so that the implement is driven at a constant speed. Then you change gears to select your ground speed. So if you are driving under load, then push the clutch in and take the load off, the motor should stay at the same RPM (within reason). Regenerative braking should come into effect if the motor is driven faster than the set RPM, e.g. by driving down a hill.
  5. The typical motor speed will be 2200 RPM. This speed gives the PTO the standard 540 RPM.
  6. The battery voltage will be nominally 150 V. I have 48 LFP cells for this prototype.
From these points it looks like I need an AC motor. I've not used an AC motor before. I understand that they can control the RPM precisely, but does your typical controller allow you to set the RPM with the throttle input as described above?
40 kW @ 150 V = 270 A continuous. So a decent controller, but not over the top.

Any suggestions for a motor/controller for this application? In another thread Adverse Affects suggested the Emrax, although I don't know where I'd get one of those from, or how expensive they'd be.
Last edited by 4Springs on Mon, 07 Jun 2021, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added Photo
antiscab
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by antiscab »

The VLT5042 (42kW continuous rated VFD) driving a 15kw ABB 4-pole 415v motor running off a 600v dc bus that was in the electrolux drove on speed signal only

Though 150V is a bit low for the VFD world. If you had 300V, then you can use all off the shelf parts (or out of the junkyard with some rewinding)
600V and you can use hardware as is from the junkyard (but then you'd be spending more on batteries rather than using the ones you already own)

A shunt wound DC motor will likely be cheapest and easiest. assuming you're keeping the clutch, you only need a controller for the field (it'd only draw 10A for rated rpm, 20A for half rated rpm, 30A for 1/3rd rated rpm, etc) and a contactor for the armature (though you could use a second controller, say a zeva unit, if you wanted to control torque).

Sadly, most of the shunt motors found second hand are designed to run at the same voltages as industrial induction motors
This one is about 2/3rds too small but is the lowest voltage I could find (240vdc): https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/27444758135 ... SwoRRfJzzd

you could also use a series wound motor as a shunt motor, by rewinding the stator, or using a large controller to drive just the field
kostov interpoled motors (or any interpoled motors really) are well suited to this, with no timing advance

you'll get regen naturally with a shunt motor

To keep the crap out, I'd use an air filter and a blower, with similar flow rate to what the original engine used to draw.

another option could be the inverter and motor out of prius C.
Prius C has a 144v system voltage, though MG2 is likely only 20kw continuous, so you'd need two of them
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by jonescg »

Would a sepex motor be better then? You can still get regen from a suitable DC controller which might be good for slow speed control.
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by 4Springs »

antiscab wrote: Thu, 03 Jun 2021, 23:09 To keep the crap out, I'd use an air filter and a blower, with similar flow rate to what the original engine used to draw.
This thing looks nice, from the Netgain website:
Netgain_Forced_Air.png
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antiscab
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by antiscab »

Yep that's what I had in mind

The 40kW continuous is a tricky one
all the Warp motors are 200A continuous rated. 2 x Warp 9 in series would probably be enough
I wonder if they can be ordered with stator windings designed to be driven at 72v 6A rather than 2.2V 200A at rated power. (Lots easier to get a controller for the former rather than the later)
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by francisco.shi »

How about a Hyper9 motor?
As far as I know they take a torque command via CAN bus. You can then make an external speed loop.
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by antiscab »

francisco.shi wrote: Sun, 06 Jun 2021, 20:27 How about a Hyper9 motor?
As far as I know they take a torque command via CAN bus. You can then make an external speed loop.
you could, but if there's budget for $10k of hyper 9 + gear reduction (as that's the only way to get 40kW cont out of a hyper 9) it'd be more cost effective to get more battery and go the vfd and industrial motor route :D

high continuous power, low voltage, low rpm and low cost is quite a tricky problem to solve
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by francisco.shi »

You would need to rewind the motor (I have experience with that 😊)
As for the VFD come to think of it my inverter would have joined trouble doing a VFD and the software for the VFD is dead easy.
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by 4Springs »

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I'm pleased with how much room there is in this tractor. The cells I have now are 48 130 Ah LFP, removed from the Brumby. So they are a few years old, and probably down to about 15 kWh. As an idea of how much room there is, I think the battery would fit in the front section, in front of where the radiator is now. This section currently houses a 12V battery, power steering ram (down the bottom), fuel tank (up the top) and lots of empty space.
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by francisco.shi »

Your dash looks so new.👍
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by 4Springs »

antiscab wrote: Thu, 03 Jun 2021, 23:09 The VLT5042 (42kW continuous rated VFD) driving a 15kw ABB 4-pole 415v motor running off a 600v dc bus that was in the electrolux drove on speed signal only

Though 150V is a bit low for the VFD world. If you had 300V, then you can use all off the shelf parts (or out of the junkyard with some rewinding)
I looked up the spec sheet for this VFD, and they specify an AC supply with a frequency range of 48 - 62 Hz. You ran it from a DC bus?
Using an industrial VFD and motor does appeal, as I assume there should be lots of options and lots of people with experience with them. I might be able to scrape together another 150 V or so...
antiscab wrote: Thu, 03 Jun 2021, 23:09 A shunt wound DC motor will likely be cheapest and easiest. assuming you're keeping the clutch, you only need a controller for the field (it'd only draw 10A for rated rpm, 20A for half rated rpm, 30A for 1/3rd rated rpm, etc) and a contactor for the armature (though you could use a second controller, say a zeva unit, if you wanted to control torque).
you'll get regen naturally with a shunt motor
Way over my head here. Definitely keeping the clutch. Cheap and easy sounds promising.
I think you're saying that the armature windings would be full voltage on or off with a contactor, and I'd put a quite small DC controller to vary the voltage on the field windings?
So in operation, I'd set the speed of the motor with the small controller, but the motor would draw what current it needed to get to speed directly from the battery. If it overran then the voltage would be fed back to the batteries.
I imagine that this would draw more current (and provide more power/torque) the further it was away from its set speed. Is the second controller so that this can be throttled back to be a bit less agressive?
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Re: 4Springs' Leyland 255 Tractor

Post by 4Springs »

francisco.shi wrote: Mon, 07 Jun 2021, 18:30 Your dash looks so new.👍
You noticed that too!
Barely anything works on it, but it is preserved beautifully. I'd like to use the Tacho, Fuel or Battery (SOC) and Water (temperature). I'm not sure about the Oil. I'm sure I can find a use for the four lights down the bottom too.
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