Prospective EV owner

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ResistanceIsFutile
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Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

Hi All. The title pretty well sums it up. I'm an EV aspirant. We currently own a Golf which I'm hoping can last till something similar in size comes along.

I'm getting pretty annoyed at the constant stream of EV's launching around the world that are being withheld from Australia.
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brendon_m
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by brendon_m »

Welcome
It's a good time to start looking at EVs as they are finally starting to trickle in and prices, while still high, are becoming more sane.
There are a few Golf size EVs out at the moment, one that explicitly stands out is the E-golf :P (Though they are only available as a grey import).
There are a few others but many more to come and more and more of them are no longer crappy compliance cars.
ResistanceIsFutile
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

brendon_m wrote: Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 18:45 Welcome
It's a good time to start looking at EVs as they are finally starting to trickle in and prices, while still high, are becoming more sane.
There are a few Golf size EVs out at the moment, one that explicitly stands out is the E-golf :P (Though they are only available as a grey import).
There are a few others but many more to come and more and more of them are no longer crappy compliance cars.
I'm really hanging for the ID3 .. it looks absolutely perfect for us. After the spray VW had in the media about the ev tax the other day I reckon they won't be rushing to send it here. I think they are saying end of 22 for the ID4 and ID3 some time after that. Damn them.
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EVdownUnder
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by EVdownUnder »

Your username is your answer :lol:
Buy another EV while waiting. I did. The ID.3 is an amazing car, but a long way away.
I’m waiting for the ID.4 or the Skoda Enyaq. Or the Ariya. Or the Ionic 5. Or ?.
But my wait has been made much easier driving the Kona.
To small, too expensive, 395Nm on the front wheels is not the best in the rain...
Not perfect, but the car I’ve got the most pleasure driving. And I’ve had a few due to my job.

Would a used Nissan Leaf do the job while waiting for the perfect EV?
Or an Ionic? Unfortunately the 2nd hand market is still very limited.
The Ionic is a very nice car to drive. The regen paddles are one of the best feature of the Hyundai.
Good luck on your quest.
2019 Ceramic blue Hyundai Kona Highlander - 124Wh/km from new
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ResistanceIsFutile
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

EVdownUnder wrote: Wed, 06 Jan 2021, 19:06 Your username is your answer :lol:
Buy another EV while waiting. I did. The ID.3 is an amazing car, but a long way away.
I’m waiting for the ID.4 or the Skoda Enyaq. Or the Ariya. Or the Ionic 5. Or ?.
But my wait has been made much easier driving the Kona.
To small, too expensive, 395Nm on the front wheels is not the best in the rain...
Not perfect, but the car I’ve got the most pleasure driving. And I’ve had a few due to my job.

Would a used Nissan Leaf do the job while waiting for the perfect EV?
Or an Ionic? Unfortunately the 2nd hand market is still very limited.
The Ionic is a very nice car to drive. The regen paddles are one of the best feature of the Hyundai.
Good luck on your quest.
Ok so I've been having a think about this. So my problem is that our current golf would get really good money just now. I really would like an EV.

The requirements I have is.

- I've got two large kids. The golf is fine but it's really quite a roomy car.
- Our garage is space limited. The golf is 4265 and it fits fine and there is enough room to move between it and the old car. Any longer than this is going to be a pain. perhaps I can get some more space by removing the bumper off the old car (which doesn't get driven much)
- As far as I'm aware, the longest our Golf has travelled in one day since new (5 years) was 320k (for which it averaged 4.7l/100!). Typically we can go one month on one tank of fuel. We do have another car that would be used for all long trips. So we really don't need a lot of range. Our car sits at home during the day most of the time so could be charged when the sun is shining.

The options in 2021 AFAIK.
NOW
- Hyundai Kona. Not really big enough inside for the family.
- Hyundai Ioniq. A little light on headroom in the back but plausible. I kinda don't mind it but it's still an ICE car with added electrics so I doesn't have the benefits of the ground up electrics (4470 length. Garage pain).
- Nissan Leaf. Seemed spacious enough (other than a stupid amp stuck in the boot). (4490 long garage pain!). I'm concerned about the air cooled batteries but if it was a short term car I think this would be ok (8 year battery warranty).
- Tesla Model 3. much garage pain. Not overly spacious inside. No carplay. Expensive for us. In someways though

Later 2021.
-Hyundai Ioniq 5. This looks really good. I'm concerned on price.. I've got a feeling they will be trying for Tesla money. Much garage pain (4640MM). While I'm happy to pay a fair price I'm concerned about depreciation. Plus garage pain...
-Mazda cx30. Nah.. battery too small. Not enough doors. Style car.
-Skoda Enyaq. Looks great. Much garage pain. 4648. They haven't even said it's actually coming here...

What I really want to buy.
An ID3. Bigger than a golf inside. Same size exterior. Looks great. Not coming until late 2023.. at best. If the euro's don't buy all the production.

Threats
Both VW and Tesla are threatening to try and lower prices in the market. I think we are being charged what the marked will pay.. supply and demand at the moment. For example the Kona looks like a 30k mini SUV with 10k of batteries priced at 65!. I expect prices will drop somewhat, and battery packs will get bigger (like 400k+ will be the minimum standard).

What am I missing? I agree the only real potential starter I can see is a Leaf or current Ioniq. Oh and I'm annoyed at all the manufacturers for *Reaming* us. Does anyone know what the LEAF and Ioniq street prices are?

Looking at all this written out I think we might have to hang onto the golf for a few more years..
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by mikedufty »

You need an i-MiEV, it will give you heaps more space in the garage. Just use the other car for trips over 100km.
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jonescg
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by jonescg »

If you plan on staying a 2 car household, then buy the cheapest, minimum range EV you can find. Drive the wheels off the EV and use the Golf for big trips.
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EVdownUnder
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by EVdownUnder »

Well as much as I think you should get one right now, logic says otherwise.
Unless you drive a lot, it makes no financial sense. And as it sounds like the length is high on the list, you have a very limited choice.
As for the tall passengers, it might depends how keen they are on electric themselves and how often they will actually be sitting at the back. When I brought the Kona home for a test drive, my youngest would have made me buy it even if he had to sit on a wooden bench.
So the most logical way forward is to use the perfectly good car you already have, or take the family for a spin in the Kona and hope that the grin inducing torque sways them to accept the imperfections.
The only other “modern” EV short enough is the Mini, but it is overpriced and the boot is really small.
Kona it is. Makes complete sense. Tell the kids to appreciate the fact that they are sitting in a not perfect EV but better than any ICE car, or to take public transport ;)
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by brunohill »

The kids may have grown up and left home by the time the perfect EV comes along. I want a Rivian for about 50K but I don't want any smart ( a...) electrics, like things that won't let you take the shopping out of the back while your wife is still in the car with the a key etc ...
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by antiscab »

+1 for the imiev

Imiev has a fairly high roof and reasonable seat width. they're pretty cheap too
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by praxidice »

A Minicab is a good entry level EV option at well under half the price of an MG eZS and the later U68 series reportedly have very long battery life, certainly vastly superior to a Leaf.
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

antiscab wrote: Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 22:45 +1 for the imiev

Imiev has a fairly high roof and reasonable seat width. they're pretty cheap too
As far as I can tell.. there are none for sale in Aus at the moment.
ResistanceIsFutile
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

In thinking about this. I just want a golf size electric hatch back. The only electrics in Aus at the moment are either mini cars or small/medium SUV's that cost nearly 70k. . In europe I'd have a number of choices... alas.

Maybe I just have to wait for the market to come to me.
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by praxidice »

ResistanceIsFutile wrote: Tue, 12 Jan 2021, 08:53
antiscab wrote: Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 22:45 +1 for the imiev

Imiev has a fairly high roof and reasonable seat width. they're pretty cheap too
As far as I can tell.. there are none for sale in Aus at the moment.
Not true, in fact I have one to sell, at least a Minicab iMiEV. Been listed here for a while and more recently on Ebay, Gumtree and a few other places. Only reason for selling is pending arrival of an MG eZS
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

praxidice wrote: Tue, 12 Jan 2021, 09:04
ResistanceIsFutile wrote: Tue, 12 Jan 2021, 08:53
antiscab wrote: Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 22:45 +1 for the imiev

Imiev has a fairly high roof and reasonable seat width. they're pretty cheap too
As far as I can tell.. there are none for sale in Aus at the moment.
Not true, in fact I have one to sell, at least a Minicab iMiEV. Been listed here for a while and more recently on Ebay, Gumtree and a few other places. Only reason for selling is pending arrival of an MG eZS
I did not know that those things even existed! Unfortunately the chances of my wife and family adopting that instead of the Golf are ... more than 0 .. but not much more. :o
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by whimpurinter »

The ABC did a story the other day about these people in Tasmania who got together and did a group-buy of 2nd hand leafs from Japan (about 20 at once, I think).
Pretty sure the cost to the new owners was $20000. In the story, they said they were looking at setting up similar groups in Victoria and NSW.
Something to think about.
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by g4qber »

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ResistanceIsFutile
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

bladecar wrote: Tue, 12 Jan 2021, 19:10 The ABC did a story the other day about these people in Tasmania who got together and did a group-buy of 2nd hand leafs from Japan (about 20 at once, I think).
Pretty sure the cost to the new owners was $20000. In the story, they said they were looking at setting up similar groups in Victoria and NSW.
Something to think about.
I saw that... great idea.

I'm really not confident about Leaf batteries in our heat though..
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by brunohill »

[/quote]

I saw that... great idea.

I'm really not confident about Leaf batteries in our heat though..
[/quote]

My LEAF lost about 4% capacity a year from 2012-2020 and it had the old bad chemistry. I have 40 'C summers here but 15'C winters. I guess all vehicles, if you drive them like you stole them and do lots of long trips with multiple fast chargers in a day, they will die faster.
praxidice
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by praxidice »

The lack of proper thermal management can't be a good thing as far as battery longevity is concerned. Its difficult to figure how Nissan managed to ignore something that appears so obvious.
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Bryce
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by Bryce »

As FYIs: the coming Nissan Ariya has liquid battery cooling .... and even the e-NV200 van (base on the Leaf) has had an active air system cooling system since 2014. Leaf has been the standout for not including either.

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Also in family: 2019 Renault Zoe
Past drives: 2011 Blade Getz, 2011 Leaf, 2001 Citroen Berlingo conversion
Past Conversions: DC Berlingo, AC Berlingo, AC Sprinter
praxidice
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by praxidice »

A 'coming' vehicle that won't necessarily be sold in Australia isn't relevant to me. The eNV200 was on my watch list for a while but I've never seen a 40kw version available for import.
ResistanceIsFutile
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

My responses from manufacturers.

Hyundai.. it will be here when it is here.
Customer Care (Hyundai Customer Care)
Jan 11, 2021, 10:25 AM GMT+11
Good Morning Stephen,

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Australia.

Our apologies for any inconvenience caused, however we do not have an exact date as of yet.

Please keep an eye out on our social media pages and website.

We appreciate your interest.

If you require anything in the future, please do not hesitate to reach out.

Thank you so much.

Kind regards,
Ameera Z
Customer Care Officer
Hyundai Motor Company Australia
http://customercare.hyundai.com.au
Phone: 1800 186 306
I found the reply from Skoda somewhat encouraging. I was expecting a "we have no plans to bring the enyaq here.."
Hi Stephen,

Thank you for your interest in the Enyaq.

While the Group electric vehicle rollout is currently focused on Europe, we are working with the factory as we speak to bring the ENYAQ to Australia, as we think it would be a great fit for our market, and in keeping with what our customers are telling us they expect from the SKODA brand. We do not have a confirmed date, but keep posted to our social pages and website.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to send me an email or contact our ŠKODA Customer Experience team on 1800 607 540. You may receive a survey shortly. This survey relates to the service and experience I have delivered to you. It does not relate to the outcome of your enquiry, dealership, your vehicle or any other external party. Only my service to you.

I would appreciate you taking a couple of minutes to share your thoughts on my performance and help ŠKODA continually improve.

Kind regards,

Natasha
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I've decided I just need to hold my nerve...
whimpurinter
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by whimpurinter »

Just to bring up something random, I was led to believe recently that there are EV s out there which allow you to power your house with the car battery (or is that only export to the grid from the car battery). Anyway, a reason to possibly buy a 2nd hand ev would be if you could use the car battery as a battery to store your panel energy and to use in the house during darkness while also being a standard ev for a while.
If this is straight from fairy-land, I'll soon find out :)
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Re: Prospective EV owner

Post by ResistanceIsFutile »

bladecar wrote: Fri, 15 Jan 2021, 14:25 Just to bring up something random, I was led to believe recently that there are EV s out there which allow you to power your house with the car battery (or is that only export to the grid from the car battery). Anyway, a reason to possibly buy a 2nd hand ev would be if you could use the car battery as a battery to store your panel energy and to use in the house during darkness while also being a standard ev for a while.
If this is straight from fairy-land, I'll soon find out :)
Back To Grid. BTG. The Nissan Leaf + is supposed to support it. It's the only one I'm aware of. I'm sure they will come though.

I'm concerned that you'll have to spend several thousand on electronics to access hundreds of dollars of savings though. :mrgreen:
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