Brand New Toy...

Post by **EV2Go** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 00:14

The outlaws have just fitted a 2.2kW solar panel array... the new meter was fitted today and turned on about 2.45pm.

About 5.40pm I went and had a look at the new meter and saw the following reading.

Reg 03 kWh Inport .8 (power coming in?)
Reg 93 Net kWh Export .3 (power going out?)
Reg 07 kWh Controlled 0 (????)

So can someone please explain did they make or use .5 of a kWh?
And what is controlled?

Post by **antiscab** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 00:40

it means they imported 0.8kwh and exported 0.3kwh

so basically the household loads exceeded system output for a bit, then the reverse occured.

a controlled load would be something the utility decideds when it is on/off.
you may have this if you have an off peak electric HWS.

Matt

Post by **EV2Go** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 00:54

Ok that's what I thought they have a current nett loss of .5kwh, but being that it is an overcast day and wasn't hooked up until later in the afternoon, perhaps tomorrow might look more favorable.

They have solar hot water, but I think my partners father said something about not wanting to create more electricity than they use...

He felt it wasn't fair to get more back than breaking even. Not sure I agree with his logic on that one... If you can make money from supplying the govt electricity I reckon go for it.

He said some invertors can do that... any truth to that?

Post by **Thalass** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 01:30

Tell your father in law that he can consider the grid to be a giant battery. After all, his panels aren't going to be producing power at night. So any excess generated, even over their night-time usage, could be considered a long term stored supply. Sunny days will cover cloudy days, etc.

Post by **EV2Go** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 02:47

Yeah I don't think he has any problem with temporarily storing it on the grid, I think it is more of an ethical thing that you should make money out of it. But as I say each to their own, me I have no issues on getting a bit back from them.

Post by **Richo** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 06:14

Remind him how much the inital capital cost was.
Then add up the amount he makes each day.
Work out how many years it will be before he really makes money out of it.
He can feel un-ethical then.

Post by **woody** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 15:47

Also he's bought a lot more electricity over the last 50+ years before they were installed, so he's got to sell that all back before he feels unethical too

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 15:54

The Govt are paying good feed in tarrifs to ENCOURAGE people to put in PV panels. Tell him he's not doing his part if he doesn't provide green power for other people to buy. He OWES it to them (the people buying green power) to generate as much as he possibly can.
(It's all kind of irrelevant now since the panels are in. What's he going to do - turn them off at some point? - DON'T tell him he can!)

Edit: people

Post by **EV2Go** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 17:05

He mentioned something that prevents too much being put back I think (dont really know how the system works). I appears to have timers, do they stop it being put back? what is their purpose?

Come to think of it if it has already supplied back to the grid as a surplus (the .3kwh) it may not be working the way he thinks unless there is a way of it not putting back more than comes off (nett).

Post by **PlanB** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 18:16

And it's gonna get a whole lot scarier lads evil empire

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 18:21

Gosh, soon I won't be able to tell the difference between my horseless carriage, my Gramaphone and my sextant.

Post by **PlanB** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 18:46

You won't be able to tell the difference between the grid & a dead albatross on a chain if Microsoft get to it John! Warning: Your EV may be at risk, download the latest security patch.

Post by **Johny** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 19:05

PlanB wrote:....Warning: Your EV may be at risk, download the latest security patch.

Nope - I've turned off automatic updates in my EV ever since that patch that disabled retina scanning and the 10 year old kid up the road took it for a spin using only hand movements over
his iPhad65 to drive it.

Post by **PlanB** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 19:09

Post by **Richo** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 20:38

I guess they didn't watch Terminator 3.
One step closer to inevitability.

Post by **EV2Go** » Fri, 08 Apr 2011, 23:56

EV2Go wrote: The outlaws have just fitted a 2.2kW solar panel array... the new meter was fitted today and turned on about 2.45pm.

About 5.40pm I went and had a look at the new meter and saw the following reading.

Reg 03 kWh Inport .8 (power coming in?)
Reg 93 Net kWh Export .3 (power going out?)
Reg 07 kWh Controlled 0 (????)

So can someone please explain did they make or use .5 of a kWh?
And what is controlled?

Just did a quick check of the meter to see what a full day produced
current readings are:

Reg 03 kWh Inport 10.2kWh
Reg 93 Net kWh Export 2.6kWh
Reg 07 kWh Controlled 0

So it would appear he is only making a fraction of the power he is using...

Post by **EV2Go** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 00:07

PlanB wrote: And it's gonna get a whole lot scarier lads evil empire

So instead of a message popping up on your computer screen telling you that you don't have a license and your software might be pirated, are you likely to get a message on your cars heads up display telling you that you don't have a license and that your car may be stolen?

Post by **antiscab** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 00:11

EV2Go wrote: He mentioned something that prevents too much being put back I think (dont really know how the system works). I appears to have timers, do they stop it being put back? what is their purpose?

In the event of grid disconnent, the inverter will shut down.

If your local grid voltage goes above ~250v, the inverter will cut back or shut down to hold the grid voltage within specification.

but aside from that, they're designed to pump in as much as possible.

btw - how much energy does he use a day on average? kwh/day

Matt

Post by **EV2Go** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 01:25

antiscab wrote: In the event of grid disconnent, the inverter will shut down.

If your local grid voltage goes above ~250v, the inverter will cut back or shut down to hold the grid voltage within specification.

but aside from that, they're designed to pump in as much as possible.

btw - how much energy does he use a day on average? kwh/day

Matt

Maybe I missunderstood what he said... I do recall him saying that if the main power fails it stops putting power into the system.

I think daily usage is something like 13kWh.

Shouldn't a 2.2kWh array make much more than 2.3kW in a whole day?

Post by **antiscab** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 06:58

EV2Go wrote:
Shouldn't a 2.2kWh array make much more than 2.3kW in a whole day?

Yes a 2.2kw array should produce around 8-9kwh/day

your energy meter is measuring net energy:
the power from your system minus any loads.

so that system produced much more than 2.3kwh in a day.
2.3kwh is just how much more it produced than was used, ie the exported amount.

at other times during the day when loads exceed the system output, an importation amount is measured.

be aware, the export amount is worth far more than the import amount.

Matt

Post by **EV2Go** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 15:35

Yes Matt I worded that poorly.. I should have perhaps said a nett gain of 2.3kWh, as you say you have to nullify the incoming before it can have an out going.

Post by **EV2Go** » Sat, 09 Apr 2011, 15:50

Some new reading from this morning:

At the power box

03 - 19.6kWh
93 - 3.4 kWh
07 - 5.5 kWh (controlled previously 0)
13 - on 21.30
13 - oF 16.00

at the Growatt PV Inverter

1430w (currently 1.43kW)
E today 2.0kWh
T all 17.3h (hours?)
E all 10 kWh

Post by **EV2Go** » Sun, 10 Apr 2011, 01:45

As usual I had things all bum about face...

He didn't want to put it all back on the grid and then draw it back making money in the process, he only wanted to put back the excess.

Post by **Thalass** » Wed, 13 Apr 2011, 05:38

I'm still not a fan of photovoltaic systems, but it's acceptable in suburban areas (as opposed to a wind turbine) and would be a great backup for an EV. As long as the inverter can be commanded to charge either the EV or a separate battery bank first, and then export to the grid. It's no good having an EV if you're late for work because of a blackout!

Post by **EV2Go** » Wed, 20 Apr 2011, 18:37

Now the system has been in place a little while I thought I might share a few of my finding with you all.

Firstly the range of power output differs greatly depending on the elements (far more than I would have expected).

In the late afternoon when the sun is too low to get a good angle on the panels the power output can drop to as low as .5w, there is still viable sunlight but it is not in any way productive sunshine.

The wet weather and cloudy days can also knock the results around considerably, often in these conditions the output is typically around a couple of hundred watts.

Bright sunshine... I saw the inverter reach 1.9kW the other day indicating it was producing a good portion of the advertised 2.2kW

On an average sunny day I am seeing ~10kWh (Etoday) being produced.

To many these results may not be all that surprising, but to a solar panel newbie like me who would like to buy a system one day they were enlightening.

Just went out to the inverter to get some readings.

Tall = 138.4h (fairly sure this is the period it has been producing electricity)
Eall = 96kWh (electricity it has produced in those 138.4 hours)
Etoday = 2.3kWh (electricity generated today... overcast and not a great result)

So dividing the 96kWh by the 138.4 hours it has been running, I work the average output for any given hour to be .694kWh, just shy of 700watts from a 2.2 kW system.

Which leads me to believe at less than 1/3 its potential output, having a system that tracks the sun would have to improve these figure considerably.