EV parts in Adealide

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DVR
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EV parts in Adealide

Post by DVR »

If the circit breaker was the only safety device in the system I would agree with you but if it is used in conjunction with a few fuses like this (Gav's Tredia again)
Image
I cant see that they could have a problem with it as the breaker is not the "primary "protection devise. the fuses are.


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Post by drowe67 »

CometBoy wrote:
I was under the impression they required an industry standard emergency push bottom style safety switch. The BIG red button type. Like this one on Zeva’s site... https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=38.

Are they happy to accept a standard circuit breaker in its place?


Think so, as in IB74 can see lines of the form "Any traction circuit over-current protection device (e.g. a fuse or overload relay)" which suggests either/or.

I might paint the toggle red or have an arrow or something.
CometBoy wrote: David are you fitting an inertia switch?? In my “Statement of Requirements” documentation with the department I stated I would be fitting one... Thought it was needed back then?


Not planning to, it's not in my "Statement of Requirements", which was issued Jan 2008. I haven't noticed it in the attached copy of IB74 (Aug 2005 version), either, although I might have missed it.

I think a lot of this will come down to the inspector on the day, so I wouldn't worry too much. I can also see (say compared to the electric echo compliance docs in Queensland) that we get it pretty easy here in SA. The guys I have spoken to at Regency have been quite helpful, enthusiastic even.

Today I phoned up to ask about the number of passengers, they said that as long as you don't exceed GVM it's OK to have as many as you have seat-belts for. In my case I want to drive around with a couple of kids, but the same number of adults in my lead-sled would push me over GVM. In other states I think they hard-limit you to say 2 occupants, based on the curb weight and GVM at time of inspection.

Cheers

David
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Post by CometBoy »

AS you know, our SA document is based on the National Guidelines for Installation of Electric Drives in Vehicles .

Have you read section 3.1 of that document? (DVR you are quoting 2.6 that there is no issue with, I am asking about 3.1). I think it is the latest version of the guidelines. As everyone is saying it’s all very open to interpretation.

Yes, Regency has been very helpful; I think the SA contact person is still Roland Earl. So I might contact him to see what they are currently expecting in this area before finalizing my cable positions.

Thanks anyway...

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EV parts in Adealide

Post by DVR »

Words like "recomended "and "strongly suggested" are not the same as SHALL' and "MUST". Those words can be found in abundance in the document. It doesn't say "must be accessible to pedestrians." Having the emergency disconnect visible to those outside the car means just that. They have to be able to see it. A cars ignition key is the same. Normally everyone knows where the ignition key is. But some cars put it in unusual places like the center of the dash or console BUT, thats ok cos it can still be easily seen from outside the car. So the first on the scene of an accident can easily reach in and kill the power. The same goes for the emergency disconect. At least that's the way I read the bulletine.

When I Contacted Regency about my conversion, they were, as described above, very helpful.


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Post by Tim »

CometBoy wrote: AS you know, our SA document is based on the National Guidelines for Installation of Electric Drives in Vehicles .

Have you read section 3.1 of that document? (DVR you are quoting 2.6 that there is no issue with, I am asking about 3.1). I think it is the latest version of the guidelines. As everyone is saying it’s all very open to interpretation.

Yes, Regency has been very helpful; I think the SA contact person is still Roland Earl. So I might contact him to see what they are currently expecting in this area before finalizing my cable positions.

Thanks anyway...


CometBoy,

Roland Earl has gone. But the guy who would take the enquiry now is sensible about these things. (Though he is on leave for another week or so)
Also, most of the Vehicle Standards guys would either have their heads around most of this or refer you on. They should be the first contact anyway.

The thing that it is probably fairly important to know is that VSB 14 was mainly developed by a bunch of old farts who's knowledge of EVs was pretty much limited to the heavy and slow old slugs that is unfortunately the typical image that we are fighting to break.

I povided quite a bit of input and suggestions to the EV part of VSB 14 as I was aware of the modern components, etc available in the US and the NEDRA/ANDRA documentation... but we all know how hard it is to buck the image!!

Yes, IB74 is based on VSB 14. IB74 actually has higher status than VSB 14 in SA at this time too.

Like I have said before though, they are both really guidelines... not law. IB74 gives the base guideline which is the requirement unless you can show cause to go outside or beyond it.

So if you can justify a variation that gives an equivalent or better outcome with no adverse effects or elements, then there is no reason it cannot be accepted.

Cheers, Tim.
Don't listen to what I'm saying... just understand what I mean.
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Post by CometBoy »

Here is the final outcome....

After talking to Clinton Halliday and explaining the various views and solutions as per our forum last night, he said he would discuss the outcome that Vehicle Standards were after (with his team) and get back in the form of an email. I pushed the idea of the choke cable as being the neatest solution (thanks to DVR) hoping they would be happy with that.

AND no problem...

Logic wins!

Please find a “cut and paste” of his email below for future reference. The only other thing not in the email is that they will assume the choke is in a visible location as apparently some cars have them out of sight.

________________________________

Hi Bruce

As stated in the Fact Sheet for 'Conversion to Electric Drive' it is a requirement for a Master switch to isolate all electrical connections to the power source. It must be within easy reach for the driver. It must be operable by a direct mechanical action and not rely on any electrical or electromechanical device.

Therefore using your choke cable mechanism is ok. Rename the choke accordingly to read 'Isolator switch' or similar. Maybe even paint it red to make it more visible.

It is only suggested that the master switch be readily visible and identifiable by persons outside the vehicle.

Regards.
Clinton Halliday
Vehicle Standards Officer
Regulatory Services
Transport SA
Department for Transport, Energy & Infrastructure
Kateena Street Regency Park SA 5010
Phone: (08) 8348 9601 Ext: 29601
Fax     : (08) 8348 9533
Email : clinton.halliday@transport.sa.gov.au
The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential, and may also be the subject of privileged or public interest immunity. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or reproduction of this document is unauthorised. If you have received this e-mail in error please telephone 8348 9601.
________________________________

Cheers

Bruce
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Post by DVR »

That's great BRUCE!!
Thanks for posting that Image
Re-copied, pasted, printed and filed for future reference. Image
Last edited by DVR on Fri, 01 Aug 2008, 14:08, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by CometBoy »

Evric,

Thanks the info on that inertia switch (BA Falcon). I stopped into Richmond Motor Salvage this afternoon and got one with the connector for $30.00 as you said. If anyone else needs one their number is 8371 2677 (contact is Tony, he knows about them) they had 2 left.

Image

They are to be mounted with the red (reset button bit) up and have NO and NC contacts, try and get the connector as it looks a bit Fordish and nonstandard.

Thanks again
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EV parts in Adealide

Post by CometBoy »

Just finishing off the frame work for the ThunderSky battery pack and find it amazingly small for 10,800 watt-hours rating (40 by 90ah cells – 120v system) with a weight of 120kg.

I my case I have 3 rows in place of the old petrol tank and 1 row forward to help keep the mass as forward as possible. Each row has 10 cells.

Image

Put the Kleenex box in the picture to show the relative size. Big change from the massive lead acid days.

Will weld up the 3mm PVC liner boxes next.

Cheers

Bruce
Last edited by CometBoy on Fri, 01 Aug 2008, 14:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by drowe67 »

Bruce - I'm jealous! For exactly the same capacity (144V x 75AH = 10.8kWh) with Optima D31 lead acids my batteries alone (excluding rack) weigh in at a hefty 324 Kg, and I needed some serious origami to squeeze all of them into my Charade.

Also due to Peukert effect I think I will only really get 60AH (8.6kWh) out of my batteries for typical EV loads, e.g. 60A @ 60km/hr. One nice thing I just noticed was the D31's have a 2 year warranty through an Adelaide dealer. Two years is a long time in a lead acid EV, so it's comforting to have.

Bruce - what car are you actually converting?

Cheers,

David
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EV parts in Adealide

Post by CometBoy »

The current project?

Well a few years ago I decided to make an EV MightyBoy then Rod Dilkes did it in the west. For me, this is the 18th car project and three have been EV’s (two government funded 30 years ago). I like the MightyBoy because it suits my needs for a second urban only vehicle plus all the kids have now left so I don’t need anything with more than 2 seats. Secondly it’s a strangely different (almost cult) ute. I also am after a really good power to weight ratio. The 203-06-4001 ADC motor gives me 62 kw (83 hp) peak at 120 volts (and is under 50kg in weight) - the vehicle has a Curb weight of 600 kg (Gross 950 kg). So no worries at the lights or hills....

The project is a 100% rebuild and luckily there is no rust in the ute. The next 2 to 3 months will be devoted to body work and paint. The old engine bay will be detailed and I will be making new wiring looms etc etc to suit. But best of all, it is just something to play with in the shed and enjoy. My budget is around $8,000 plus batteries (currently about $5,000). I make a lot of the stuff myself and pay little in labour costs. Refurbishing the AC will also be an addional cost.

Image

Image

As you see, ready to start the panel work this week.

I’m semi retired (electronics, computing and mechanical areas) and work a few days a week at one of our Universities.

I will not be involved in the meeting, been there... Not my thing. But this forum is proving very helpful and I’m sure it will grow as more projects actually get underway.

OK now it’s DVR, drowe67 and the rest of you to post some info, what do you guy do? I’m also curious about evric’s background and project??

Cheers

Bruce (a Noddy project!)
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Post by DVR »

I'm a fitter machinist and my hobby is making things!!! I've made PC simulators,gokarts and an Electric Bike (HOG) all from scratch. At the mo I wanna make an EV out of the wifes 06 VIVA so I'm scouring the net for every bit of info that will help me and sorting out my parts/suppliers list. I plan to start ordering my parts in about 3-4 months


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Post by drowe67 »

Hi Bruce,

Nice project, with that power/weight your Mighty Boy is going to fly and have great range.

I am an Electronic Engineer, my main occupation these days is developing low cost telephone systems for people in the developing world rowetel.com. So I am coming from a low mechanical skill level. My electrical knowledge is limited to circuits of 5V and 1A, so I am climbing the electrical learning curve as well. In my regular work I can use a backspace key to correct mistakes, on my EV I use an angle grinder!

My EV is progressing every day, figure I am 2 weeks from the first drive. Working on bringing the 12V electrics back to life today. Next week I will hire the crimping tool and make all the high-current cables.

Cheers,

David
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Post by diy »

hi there,

Great forum, hope to utilise and contribute when I start my EV project.
I read somewhere that a 12VDC vacuum brake booster pump used on SAAB cars are relatively inexpensive from wreckers, and have built in cutout switch. Also 244 Volvos have lightweight plastic vacuum tank that look like 4 tennis balls joined together.

Rgds
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Post by drowe67 »

Couple more parts experiences to report:

1/ Cables
----------

I hired a crimping tool from Normak yesterday and chatted to them a bit more about cables and EVs. The welding cable they sold me a few weeks ago was double insulated rubber coated, lower cost cable is sometimes single insulated or uses PVC. So I guess you get what you pay for. They also pointed out that the price of copper has doubled over the last few years, so previous cable prices may not be a good comparison.

They were also very helpful with some 12V cable I needed - great price compared to an auto parts store. These guys attended the recent AEVA meeting and are quite interested in the SA EV scene.

2/ Lead Acid Batteries and Zivan Chargers
------------------------------------------

Last week I tested my lead acid batteries before installation in my EV. I tested each of them at 250A and then at 50-60A. Had lots of help from the EVDL list, the thread is here.

Anyway I found out that 3/12 had problems, so I took them back to the local dealer (Independant Battery Distributors at Pooraka). They were very helpful, and after repeating my tests they cheerfully replaced the bad batteries. So I can recommend them if you are interested in lead acid batteries (Optimas, Trojans etc). They have a massive warehouse full of batteries and really know their stuff, have lots of test gear etc. Being local is a definite plus when it comes to after-purchase support.

I think they might be encouraged to supply other battery types (e.g. Lithiums) if there was sufficient demand. Wouldn't it be great if we could buy Lithiums ex-stock in Adelaide?

They also have a variety of different chargers, and can supply Zivan (e.g. NG3) right here in Adelaide at good prices. Pretty cool to have a local charger supplier I think.

OK, back to crimping cables for me.......

Cheers,

David
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Post by CometBoy »

Re the price of copper, it is actually dropping - maybe read this link...

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs. ... enDocument

You should be able to get good quality double insulated orange for under $10/m easily on today’s market.

Cheers

Bruce

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Post by CometBoy »

Anyone in the wheel and tyre game?

I am trying to buy 4 off 13” x 5.5 alloys, with a stud pattern of 4 x 114.3 (and 12mm studs) for this current project.

So far I can only source them interstate from places like Tempe Tyre and Wheels.

Any suggestions of local suppliers that might stock a range of good looking light 13” rims appreciated.

I also picked up my motor adapter plate from the laser cutter on Friday... A nice solution, you just supply them with a DFX (they also will take other formats) outline file that you can create from a scanned template you make up to suit your job. This is the second time I have made up an adapter plates this way and they come back with an amazingly smooth cut. Much easier than NC milling in my view plus the cost is reasonable. The company I use has a minimum charge of $100, but for that price you could have other work included as well (like the spacer plate). I used Laserworks in Plympton; they were part of the Husqvarna group but have now split off into a separate company. If needed, the contact person is Chris Collett and their number is 8375 1099. But there are a number of laser cutters around...

Thanks

Bruce
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Post by drowe67 »

That's a great way to get the adapter plate made Bruce. How did you get the coupler made?
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Post by CometBoy »

Hi David,

Good question!

In the past, I have used a “push type keyway broach tool” to add the keyway but I am trying something different this time around. It is a product commonly used in the air-conditioning industry for transmitting high startup torques from electric motors. Most people on the forum likely know of them, but they are new to me. But seems a good alternative to using my broaching method.

The coupler comes in 2 parts, the first is a “weld in Boss” with a tapered inside hole and the second part is an insert with the correct ID and keyway to suit your job. The OD of this second part is tapered to fit into the “weld in Bass”. The insert is a precession hardened component.

I my case I am welding this “weld in Boss” to a flange that original came off a damaged crankshaft (from the wreckers for a couple of dollars). There is obviously some very important spacing that needs to simulate the original distances involved.

I am also removing the flywheel ring gear and over 50% of the weight from the back of the flywheel. The complete assembled unit will then be re balanced before final fit up....

After much debate, I am leaving the clutch in the EV. Why? I am not 100% happy with the sync design in the Suzuki gearbox and just feel better to know I have the clutch option even thou it will most likely rarely get used. Also the clutch provides for a very minor degree of misalignment. So I have bought an upgraded clutch kit for $95 and will use it.

Here are some details;

My ADC motor shaft is 1.125” dia with a .250” keyway....

“Weld on hub” part number is W16HUB ($8.87ea)

Insert is part number 1610-1-1/8 ($22.66ea)

Manufacture is Martin

Local supplier CBC Australia

And here is a snap of it.....

Image

Cheers

Bruce
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Post by DVR »

Anybody know where in adelaide you can get solid state relays for DC? I'm after something to trn a heater element on/off that runs off the main pack. 10-20A would be fine.


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Post by diy »

Not sure about a Solid State relay, but a mechanical starter motor solenoid should handle the amps and cost next to nothing S/H. The solenoid might even give off a bit of heat if left on long enough

rgds

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Post by DVR »

I surfed into FUTURELEC
They are in Sydney and they sell 200V versions of these
For $25US Image
I ordered 2 and the postage war $6 Image
Last edited by DVR on Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 15:21, edited 1 time in total.


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