EV in progress

Post by **Don** » Thu, 10 Jul 2008, 22:14

Heya, Bruce suggested starting a thread with our EV projects... even if you're just in the research stage or have a dream conversion... here's your chance to let us know what stage you're at

If you need help with something... post it here, then start a new thread specific to that question, so this doesn't get clogged with technical stuff!

For me... i've been searching everywhere i can think of for a Porsche 924/944 (which i'll put the 96 interior, and turbo body kit on) to convert.

At this stage i'm planning to put in a warp9 motor and kelly controller (although i with Ian Hooper would finish off the Zeva so i can use that!! - and if you're reading this Ian.. i'll even be a guinea pig for you;) )

40 or 45 cells of TS 90ah's... or, if i come into some money in the next month or two... 160's

i'm keeping the clutch, trying to find a 1000w dc/dc converter so i can use a hair dryer for a heater, and i like the look and price of the LiFePo4 charger from EVpower... probably use their BMS too...

but i'm not ordering anything til i get the car! i'll drive it around til everything comes in.. then knock it over in a week or two. (with help, of course)

so, what are YOU doing?

Post by **Don** » Thu, 10 Jul 2008, 22:15

that should read '86 interior

Post by **CometBoy** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 00:39

Yes, with all the new SA interest I thought it might be worthwhile to start a thread on 2008 projects that are actual underway in our state.

The hope being that any common parts may be purchased in a bulk buy.

So my next EV project has just been ticked for approval from the Department of Transport. I now have the “Statement of Requirements – Vehicle Modification” - The letter that you get from them after submitting your EV modification plans. The statement is valid for one year and provides a list of things you will be required to do in order to register the completed EV. In my case the conversion is very straight forward as I am not changing the mass weight distribution or weight capacity (this is another Suzuki MightBoy conversion similar to Rod Dykes and the others done around Australia).

So the parts I will be purchasing in the next month or so are:

Advanced DC Motor – Model 203-06-4001 (EVmotors Sydney) or WarP8 (see more on this below)

Curtis 1231C Motor Controller (Bylong Industries Sydney)

Curtis 1400E-1201 DC/DC Converter (Bylong Industries Sydney)

24 - LFP90AHA Lithium Ion batteries [using 1C=3v so 3x24=72v for my job] (will not purchase these till early 2009 as the price is dropping every month – last bulk purchase into Australia cost about $1.62AUD/AH delivered)

BMS and Charger (TBA maybe my own BMS)??

One of the problems is the supply of most EV related parts within Australia, the delay can be very long and we all look at other options because of this...

Re the WarP8 vs ADC motor decision, please read this post from zeva in reply to an earlier post by me today...
_________________________

Hi CometBoy,

Well as a NetGain distributor OF COURSE I am going to tell you that the Warp is a better way to go! But let me elaborate on that a little.

Firstly the Warp 8 is actually a discontinued motor, NetGain recommend the ImPulse 9 as the best substitute. It has the same mounting pattern as the Warp 8, and also the same as the ADC 8. It's their latest motor and is a couple of decades newer than the ADC 8 in design - though honestly series DC motors really haven't changed much lately, there's not much between them in performance or efficiency.

All the NetGain motors use larger diameter copper in the windings than the ADCs, which gives lower resistance windings but also mean there are fewer coils. The result of this is that they have lower torque per amp, but higher rpm per volt. In practice this just means that the ImPulse's optimum power band is at a somewhat higher RPM, but peak power is similar. (It also explains the higher 192V maximum rating of the NetGains vs ADCs.)

Lastly, right now there are supply problems with the NetGains (I've had my order in for about 2 months now and they still haven't shipped... not good for business) so unfortunately it might be a case of... use whatever motor you can actually get your hands on!

Zeva
_________________________

So if anyone else requires any of these very standard EV components or wants to join in a list for bulk Li-Ion batteries let us know your timelines. You need to think well in advance...

And let hear the details of projects you have started in South Australia!

Cheers

Bruce

Post by **DVR** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 01:24

HI, as I stated in my first post in the other thread, I'm looking into converting my Holden VIVA.
Thing are still fluid ATM but at present here's the plan

Warp 9, Curtis 1231C or ZIVA (undecided about the ZEVA ATM and heard to many bad things about the larger KELLYs), 45 X TS160Ah's.
I had a hell of a time finding the GVMR of the VIVA. I've got a mate on the inside at holden who was talking to people in Korea and Vic and all he can get me is an un titled extract from an "in-house" PDF doc. So I 've got the figure but I cant actually prove it to regency.
While I'm on that the GVMR of the VIVA might be a bit marginal.
The unladen in 1255kg's, GVMR is 1680kg's so 1255 + 408(5 passengers @ 81.6 ea) = 1663kg's

That only leaves 17KG's spare

Anyway I'd definitely interested in any bulk orders that might be done after November motors,controllers, batts, vac pumps, anything. Lithium @$1.62perAh delivered!!!!That's an UNBELIEVABLY good price

The best Iv'e found so far is $1.79 plus freight(provided the order was large enough. YEEHAAA!!!

Post by **DVR** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 01:30

Oh You May or may not be interested in my current EV
See it here.http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/10

If you happen to be in Andrews Farm/Smithield area you may see me around

Post by **DVR** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 01:34

dunno why the link doesn't work. Copy and paste is into your browser.

Post by **CometBoy** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 01:48

Nice "Hog" DRV!

If anyone is interested....

I think George Symons at EVMotors will have stock of the ADC 203-06-4001 motor in a couple of weeks and I think the price is around $2300 AUD plus shipping from Sydney to Adelaide. I will verify that tomorrow.

I need the motor within 6 weeks so the NetGain Impluse9 at around $1700 USD might be out of the question this time.

Bruce

Post by **DVR** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 02:08

Thanks Cometboy.

I'm curious, what does the $1700US turn into once it's landed at your door?

Post by **CometBoy** » Fri, 11 Jul 2008, 02:32

Maybe Don can advise the Oz price? Sounds like he has or is checking that out...

Bruce

Post by **moemoke** » Sat, 12 Jul 2008, 05:04

Hi Don, the guy up the road from me has a Porsche 944 sitting in his driveway, unused for at least 2 years, it has been on a jack with one wheel off for all that time. I would ask him if he wants to sell it BUT he is a strange man. A bit OT but he also has a new (well when he got it about 5 years ago) Lotus Elise in his shed that he never uses, towed it home behind his clapped out camper van on a single axle trailer. I offered to help him get it off the trailer as he was having trouble, he said he didnt need help but when he finished there was a big pool of green coolant on the road, and he had Elise in garage with roller door and bricks on it, also saw Black Porsche 911 in back of Garage under boxes and junk

Post by **Richo** » Sat, 12 Jul 2008, 06:48

DVR wrote: Thanks Cometboy.

I'm curious, what does the $1700US turn into once it's landed at your door?

https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=34
AUD$2365 at the door.
Zeva is the local distributor you won't get it quicker or cheaper by going direct.

The link in a previous post prob did not work because you had a space before the URL.

Post by **Don** » Sat, 12 Jul 2008, 17:20

thanks mate! that sounds awesome

If you do see him, feel free to give him my mobile number 0403338000. (new iPhone!)

what's with your neighbour?!? a little out there indeed!

what part of town do you live in? i might make contact myself if you're not keen. heheh

Post by **DVR** » Sun, 13 Jul 2008, 02:10

Richo wrote:
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=34
AUD$2365 at the door.
Zeva is the local distributor you won't get it quicker or cheaper by going direct.

Actually that price is without freight which Ian gave me a rough quote of about $60 to ADELAIDE.

I would still like to know how much it ends up costing to land one here from the states. If only so when I am asked I can give an accurate answer.

I've always kept up to date catalog's from EV America. When I asked him for a quote on freight for a motor ,controller and such he sent me this...

Shane -

Please look at the complete system below. It will be easier if you see everything that you might need, so nothing is overlooked.

Once the components you need are identified we can get a shipping quote. We will need a complete address.

Bob @ EVA

Sound good right?
Well, I have answered this mail 4 times in 6 weeks with out a single reply! I made it by reply and by creating a new mail and by using the email link on their page. Nil response.
Its weird cos these guys have a really good rep in the international EV community. KIWIEV swears by them.

Post by **CometBoy** » Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 03:01

I have just started a new SA thread on Li-Ion bulk purchasing within Australia. For those in the market for some Li-Ion this year could we please use this thread to comment, monitor and hopefully take advantage of a group bulk purchase..... The price per AH has been updated so check out the new thread!

Thanks

Bruce

Post by **Tim** » Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 04:53

DVR wrote: The unladen in 1255kg's, GVMR is 1680kg's so 1255 + 408(5 passengers @ 81.6 ea) = 1663kg's

That only leaves 17KG's spare

DVR, saw this in your earlier post, and thought I'd check on the numbers that the guys at Transport will have access to.

According to the latest version of the official numbers that GM Daewoo have provided to the Commonwealth, and they have had a few goes at getting it right by the looks of things... third revision... the Tare Mass for the hatch is 1167kg and the notchback sedan is 1172kg. None of their docs list the GVM though unfortunately.

The definition of Tare Mass from the ADRs is:

TARE MASS - mass of a vehicle other than a L-group vehicle ready for service, unoccupied and unladen, with all fluid reservoirs filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted.

An L-group vehicle is a motorbike/trike. These are the same but with no fuel.

Anyway, thought it may help.

Cheers,

Tim.

Post by **DVR** » Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 05:05

Thanks TIM!!
This whole thing has me flummoxed! If the manufacturers AND Transport SA cant get the numbers, HOW THE HELL DO THEY EXPECT US TO FIGURE IT?

Sorta adds trepidation to the whole certification process, dunnit?

Post by **woody** » Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 20:15

If they don't know the GVM, they can't complain when you go over it

Post by **drowe67** » Sun, 20 Jul 2008, 02:29

Hello SA Evers,

I am working on a Charade conversion that is nearing completion, having started last September. This blog post from January describes the project.

Since then I have moved along a little. All parts have been purchased, battery racks welded and painted. I am currently installing all the sundry bits, e.g. this week I fabricated brackets for the vacuum pump and throttle linkages to the pot box.

Here is what's currently under the bonnet:

You can see the recently installed vacuum pump to the left. Next step is working out how to mount the chargers, 2 of which are pictured.

I am using 12 individual 12V chargers from Jaycar, one per battery. This takes care of BMS and charging and is cheap (< $1k). I have ordered a Paktrakr to monitor each battery and wring as much life as possible out of my Yellow Top AGMs.

Here are some other pictures of the back battery rack being built by my friend Jim, the front rack, and the motor/adaptor plate/gearbox:

From reading the other posts it seems like I have the only EV running Lead Acid batteries in Adelaide! I considered Lithiums but opted for Lead Acid due to cost (especially including the charger and BMS) and maturity of the technology at the time (Nov 2007). Also the 55km est range (80% DoD) for my Yellow Top AGM batteries is plenty for my needs. Guess I'll go Lithium for my next pack in a few years time.

Total cost (including the donor car and chargers) is 14-15k.

You are all very welcome to visit me in Kilkenny (near Arndale shopping centre) anytime and check out the conversion. Hey, you can even help me out with some wiring if you like

I started this project with no idea about the mechanical side but have had a lot of fun learning, I have especially enjoyed learning to weld.

Cheers,

David

Post by **DVR** » Sun, 20 Jul 2008, 02:37

Nice to meet you Dave.
The car looks great

I think I will take you up on that invite one day soon.
In the meantime keep up the momentum

Post by **ReVolt** » Mon, 21 Jul 2008, 08:05

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the forum and those are good clear photos. You're well on your way.

Post by **mjcrow** » Thu, 18 Sep 2008, 05:14

Hi Don,

Still looking for a Porsche 944, one coming up for auction in Tasmania Link damaged on the passenger side, know a good body man? It could be a pretty good buy though if the stated milage is correct. Rest of the car looks nice in the other photos.

mjcrow

Post by **Don** » Thu, 18 Sep 2008, 13:02

thanks!

i AM still looking for one! (and may have finally sourced one.. still in negotiations!)

That link didn't work, but i'd be very keen to find out about it if you know how?

thanks again!

I haven't been here for a while... what's been happening with everyone's conversions??

Don.

Post by **CometBoy** » Thu, 18 Sep 2008, 13:59

I was wondering what has happened as well?

All has gone very quiet on the building side...

Mine is on schedule and all the details can be found at

http://www.mightyboyev.com

Remember to try and help push the future rebate possibility in SA as well guys! See the thread on rebates yesterday....

Bruce

Post by **drowe67** » Thu, 18 Sep 2008, 15:38

I have been steadily working on my baby EV.

A few weeks ago a short of a few hundred ohms developed between the isolated traction pack and the chassis. Took me a few hours but I traced it to the motor, when I opened the inspection panel a broken brush clip fell out! This had been rattling around bottom of the motor, causing a connection to the motor body and hence vehicle chassis:

The clip had either fallen off or had arced for some reason:

I have no idea why it fell off, but anyway EV motors sent me out some new clips and the EV is drivable again, and the short to chassis has gone away.

During the wait I installed some new heavy duty springs in the back (off the shelf from Pedders). This was actually pretty tough - the nuts & bolts were awesomely tight but a friends impact wrench help get them off. Now the car is sitting above the legal minimum height, despite 200kg of lead in the back. One more thing off the checklist for Regency, few more to go.

I am still new to cars so everything I touch (suspension, brake bleeding and even when and why impact wrenches are needed) is a new adventure for me. So I just take my time, ask questions, and eventually muddle through, learning a bit on each job. The online EV community are wonderful resource.

Next project is installing the DC-DC converter. I have a solid state relay that will switch the DC-DC on when I turn the ignition, as I didn't feel comfortable having it running 24/7. That way I also have the original ICE battery as a backup for the vac pump (brakes), lights etc should the traction pack and/or DC-DC go off line.

Cheers,

David

Post by **mjcrow** » Thu, 18 Sep 2008, 19:37

Hi Don,

Link works OK for me, but here's the base url http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/ do a search on the right hand side for vehicles:Porsche:944 should find it, auction is on the 7/10/08.

mjcrow