DC Fast Charger location question

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jonescg
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by jonescg »

acmotor wrote: Gabz wants FC in the CBD, Chris wants one at Ravenswood ?
I support the latter with the realistic reservations pointed out.


OK so we agree furiously Image

Look, there are good reasons to have them in both places, but one must remember that there is no way in my lifetime a fast charger will ever break even economically. But I don't know many petrol stations that are doing particularly well either.

I think Gabz is right; once people have their first fast charge and watched the 'fuel' gauge climb up in 20 minutes, they will want another charger somewhere further away. But I also believe that we might as well put the first one on the way to somewhere else. If not, g4qber will be charging there every day Image


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acmotor
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by acmotor »

Yep, see the poll at the top of the page.

Yes, Gabz is right. Once people can fast charge they will be hooked on fast charging.

Or the big picture.... Once people can fast charge on a real journey the world will be hooked on EVs. Image
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by adelaide-ev »

Well guys, I am not familiar with Perth so cannot help with locations. However, my experience of fast charging my imiev took me from 27% charge to 80% in 20 minutes. And took my guessometer on that occasion from 25km to 100km exactly ( based on suburban driving not highway).
So, I definitely think you need to allow a shorter distance between fast chargers than for slow charging because you won't get maximum range from a FC. Better batteries may come but won't help use of FC now, which is what you're trying to encourage.
Remembering fast chargers spaced at the furthest limit for new cars/batteries will not be helpful for the 2nd hand EV owner (or resale value) if range has deteriorated so an ev won't quite make the FC distance.
I think you need to locate them at 70 - 80km distances not 100km.
The other issue with this is what about all the warnings about not using the fast charger too much for fear of shortening battery life and range?? So again, how often is too often?

Quote: "The problem with your premium is that you paid that to Mitsubishi, so tell them you demand a free one!" Well lucky for us in Adelaide that's what we currently have. Wish it was ok to use it all the time!

Also, what are the costs likely to be for using them in future? If the markup is too much over home charging it may defeat the purpose?(the price of those slow chargers on Kangaroo Island was scary). I don't even know the price for even Level 2 Chargepoints? as they are free here at present. But having paid a premium for my ev, I'm less likely to pay too much over the odds to recharge, fast or not.


I
Last edited by adelaide-ev on Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 15:13, edited 1 time in total.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by jonescg »

Yeah sorry about the WA focus of our discussion, but the poll is open to everyone.

Unfortunately the trouble with 80 km spacings is the lack of interesting places at 80 km intervals. We do have interesting places every 100 km or so, which might mean driving a bit slower as you approach your next charge point. IN the case of high tourist areas, there's a good chance the speed limits will make for some pretty economical driving. Not so for the Hume Highway though.

I think we need to take a drive :)
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by adelaide-ev »

Quote:I think we need to take a drive :)"

Probably the best idea - bit of a test run! Would a charge at a coffee shop allow the range to get somewhere nice ( and back to the FC) for an outing? That's what I thought about Gawler in SA -big enough place for a short stop and FC to then go touring the Barossa before returning to Gawler and FC again to get back to Adelaide.
Keep in mind if it's a tourist run you are more likely to have extra passengers and luggage/shopping that may affect range. Less likely unless car pooling on a commuter run.

Quote: "Yeah sorry about the WA focus of our discussion" - that's fine - have to start somewhere and the same questions are relevant to all locations.
Last edited by adelaide-ev on Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 15:04, edited 1 time in total.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by g4qber »

For people who live in apartments or have on street parking, home charging may not be feasible. Hence fast charging in some cities would be an option.

In japan service stations become energy stations

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/30/whi ... ification/


http://www.evgonetwork.com/author/julianab/page/2/
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by acmotor »

People who live in apartments shouldn't have cars. Get the bus. Image fair point though, for a minority.

Surely FCs are not $50,000 in Japan. (In Yen of course Image )
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by Gabz »

yes I'm just saying don't put it so far out of town that someone on the south side of perth can't use it because you've put it north 100km from the cbd and they only have an i-miev with 100km at 80%.

60-70 km from the cbd is still good 100km isn't.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by jonescg »

Yeah, that's why Mandurah/Ravenswood site is ideal - it still allows drivers who are 15 km away from the city to still use it. From there to Bunbury is a long stretch, but unfortunately there's not much in between. It would be prudent if there were more 15 A / 32 A AC chargers along the way, or even on the outskirts of Bunbury. And where the DC fast charger is located - if it's busy when you get there, it would be nice to get some charge in while you wait.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by Johny »

jonescg wrote:It would be prudent if there were more 15 A / 32 A AC chargers along the way, or even on the outskirts of Bunbury. And where the DC fast charger is located - if it's busy when you get there, it would be nice to get some charge in while you wait.
That would also be useful if you were prepared to hang around a while longer and move to regular Level 2 charging after the fast charge to top up to 100%.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by Gabz »

level 3 chargers break a lot more often especially the ones in Australia so it's a good idea to put a level 2 next to it anyway !
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by g4qber »

perhaps a level 2 AC 32amp without the smarts to be future proof; we're currently having issues with the "smart" electromotive bollards in Perth eg. "tag expired"
as in zero carbon world (ZCW)
and with a hardwired j1772 cable

ZCW need to cater for car mennekes and j1772 connectors since they have BMW & VW to contend with.

http://therevproject.com/trials/charging-trial.php

one good thing of units being networked is that they can be monitored
eg. Chargepoint Australia do a great job.

but then again there is the cost of the backend servers & network connectivity etc.

not too sure if one should go for the lowest common denominator (LCD) of a 15A wall socket
this is what they have at UWA

http://www.recargo.com/sites/1742

currently lock side of bollard is "tag expired" for me.
work around is to unplug the getz that is on charge; it has a car mennekes socket, then unplug the station mennekes
then plug in the j1772 into car then plug in station mennekes to recommence charging on the other user's account.
Last edited by g4qber on Fri, 10 Jan 2014, 05:30, edited 1 time in total.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by acmotor »

I did a spreadsheet last year for Perth to Yallingup and even just say twin 15 A outlets officially arranged at service stations, coffee shops as often as possible maybe 30km apart for good coverage would help and in my case the trip would be less than 12 hours. I'd need 37 kWh total so picking up 8 hours charge along the way (24+kWh) would be better than staying overnight anywhere. It would also be cheaper and give far more outlets and location options than a single FC.

So I agree that those L2 options are very much a part of the highway plan. Even with no FCs or only one FC it makes the trip viable. If fact if the 15A outlets were there then the FCs as they came along would just be upgrades. We are all into upgrades !

None of that is to say don't go the FC direction. It's just that Chris will only arrange for one. Image
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by carnut1100 »

Ok...distances are often shorter here in tassie, but still big enough.
My friend who just bought an iMiev has gone to the tTasman peninsula this weekend, not far fron port Arthur.
They made an arrangement with a pub about halfway to plug in whike having a counter meal and that made the difference between arriving with charge to spare, and running out with 20km to go.

Long term fast chargers are needed but we need lots of slow charge options right now.
As fast chargers get rolled out they will help matters but ten slow chargers will make more difference right now than one fast charger.
One fast charger plus ten slow chargers will be awesome.

The issue with slow chargers is who pays.
If someone already has an outside outlet then a food business might be happy to allow use if they buy something. Others might be happy with say $2/hr to cover power cost with a margin over.

I'm thinking that an outlet with a coin operated timer on it would be good....Won't coat anything to have it sitting there and will more than pay for power used.
No chargepoint cards either...
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by jonescg »

Yes the fob/card access thing is a PITA and prone to glitches - just what you need when you're on empty. Make it coin operated, or credit card at least. Better yet, make it free. However for those businesses who don't want loafers, you could always have the master switch behind the counter.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by acmotor »

Master switch ?
You understand the reason the Americans developed the volt is because of the liberal gun ownership there and the risk of EV owners shooting people who turned off the power to an EV on charge, they decided that you would have to fit a gen set to the EV. Image

Swipe cards ? Isn't that all about commercial interests wanting to profit from EVs ?

The cost of EVSEs and FCs is all about investing to make a profit isn't it ? Nothing about a service to the environment, the transport future and an outright great piece of technology........ Sorry, it's the cynic in me. Image I understand we will all be paying through the nose soon enough for the energy for our transport.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by Gabz »

acmotor wrote:
The cost of EVSEs and FCs is all about investing to make a profit isn't it ? Nothing about a service to the environment, the transport future and an outright great piece of technology........ Sorry, it's the cynic in me. Image I understand we will all be paying through the nose soon enough for the energy for our transport.


When your government is hopeless then yes all you have left is private businesses and yes then all that's left is to concentrate on investing and profit to make the case to them.

I don't even see the point of wasting my time even writing to the federal or state governments for help with evs. local councils are different though
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by Renard »

Service stations in the country don't make their money selling petrol, it's all the coffees, burgers, chips, cokes etc that pay.
And having to sit around while the car charges means a captive market for all kinds of stuff. That's why an FC station at a service complex is potentially lucrative. You just have to conclude a shrewd agreement with the proprietor. Once one such FC can be seen to pay, others should follow.
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DC Fast Charger location question

Post by acmotor »

Exactly. That is why my local restaurants etc are happy to provide free charge. I more than pay for it in food purchase and a business that supports EVs gets my business.

Fast charge doesn't want to be too fast then. Image
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