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HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Mon, 07 Jan 2019, 17:22
by Kasterborus
So I was thinking watching the shindig in Canberra with lots of smoke and rubber that just passed, the Horsepower Heroes section, where people get out their ICE's and try and hit the biggest number they possibly can with the greatest amount of money that they can pour into it.

This year it was won by a big 8 cylinder in a V with turbos and stuff hanging off it and getting to over 2,400hp.

Quite impressive.

But I was wondering, are EV's "Handicapped" in a pure HP comparison? Is there a way to calculate "Equivalent HP" if one was to say, wish to attend this festival of smoke and rubber and put the ICE's in their place with an EV, what would be a fair way to compare?

Is 1HP from an EV = to 1.5hp in a ICE? 2HP? 0.75?

I suppose the best way to explain what I'm after is that if say:

EV throws out 1,000HP on a Dyno, would an ICE have to beat it by scoring:
  • 1,500HP
  • 2,000HP
  • 750HP
  • They are on par
  • This is hard to calculate

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Mon, 07 Jan 2019, 17:55
by brendon_m
1hp is 1hp
Doesn't matter where it comes from.
But they probably won't have an EV in the competition or it'll have its own class so the v8s will still be the best

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Mon, 07 Jan 2019, 19:42
by woody
Possibly relevant - some (all?) the Dynos work on (angular) accelleration of a (spinning) mass, so it’s measuring power fairly accurately but if you’ve programmed in an accelleration curve or something in your EV it may think it’s wheel spinning or something.

I imagine rocking up with a truck mounted 2GW induction motor and a power cord running to the nearest substation would only work once.

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Mon, 07 Jan 2019, 20:17
by jonescg
One of the bonuses of EVs doing burnouts is that you can spin the tyre up to full speed within a few rotations. You get to something like this pretty quick :)
Image

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 04:18
by HuffnPuff
As it is measuring the power at the wheels I can’t see there would be any handicap for a different source. There may be some rules developed about how long the vehicle should run for. I can’t imagine an EV full of super caps that runs at well over the 2400hp of the V8, but can only accelerate for 10 seconds before needing a recharge would be considered in the spirit of the competition.

The cars that win these events are specifically built for winning and aren’t typically street driven, but surly there would be some rules governing that they must be registered or able to be driven on the streets under ‘normal’ conditions.

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:02
by Scotty T
A Tesla did the go to whoa in 2016. An electric vehicle could win that very easily if done to the level of ICE cars that currently win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLebwnN6zNY

The burnout has to go for a minute, again easily done with the right EV setup. It is a pipedream to build my BMW to be able to win one or both those events. It would be the one time in my life that I attended Summernats. One day when I have money to literally burn.

For the all out horsepower, Rimac battery and drivetrain x 2. Could probably fit that in a big old Holden, just don't have a million bucks for the components from Rimac.

I wonder if there has ever been a single car that won more than one of the disciplines or all of the ones involving performance of the car? I'd think 2400hp would be no good for burnouts or go to whoa, but could you just have configurable power for burnout mode?

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:06
by Scotty T
Hahahaha using ice on an ICE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKlDNF0OLyc

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 08:12
by T1 Terry
To do the burn out comp you would need to add flames coming out of exhaust pipes, the scream of a blower and the roar of a top fueller doing it tyre warming burn out :lol: Once you had that, the other part would be easy.

T1 Terry

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 19:35
by Kasterborus
HuffnPuff wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 04:18
There may be some rules developed about how long the vehicle should run for. I can’t imagine an EV full of super caps that runs at well over the 2400hp of the V8, but can only accelerate for 10 seconds before needing a recharge would be considered in the spirit of the competition.
At this stage I don't think there are any specific rules on this, so could probably get away with some super high HP EV on Caps, at least once
Scotty T wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:02
The burnout has to go for a minute, again easily done with the right EV setup. It is a pipedream to build my BMW to be able to win one or both those events. It would be the one time in my life that I attended Summernats. One day when I have money to literally burn.
Yes, that's the burnouts. Something that isn't of great interest to me.
Scotty T wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:02
For the all out horsepower, Rimac battery and drivetrain x 2. Could probably fit that in a big old Holden, just don't have a million bucks for the components from Rimac.
I'm interested in what you are discussing, please, tell more
Scotty T wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:02
I wonder if there has ever been a single car that won more than one of the disciplines or all of the ones involving performance of the car? I'd think 2400hp would be no good for burnouts or go to whoa, but could you just have configurable power for burnout mode?
Yes, there has been ones that win more than one. But never the lot.
T1 Terry wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 08:12
To do the burn out comp you would need to add flames coming out of exhaust pipes, the scream of a blower and the roar of a top fueller doing it tyre warming burn out :lol: Once you had that, the other part would be easy.
Yeah, because the comp is biased as hell! One of the judging points is how much noise you can make.

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Wed, 09 Jan 2019, 07:26
by Scotty T
Kasterborus wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 19:35

Scotty T wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 07:02
For the all out horsepower, Rimac battery and drivetrain x 2. Could probably fit that in a big old Holden, just don't have a million bucks for the components from Rimac.
I'm interested in what you are discussing, please, tell more
T1 Terry wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 08:12
To do the burn out comp you would need to add flames coming out of exhaust pipes, the scream of a blower and the roar of a top fueller doing it tyre warming burn out :lol: Once you had that, the other part would be easy.
Yeah, because the comp is biased as hell! One of the judging points is how much noise you can make.
Rimac Concept 1 has 1224 horsepower. http://www.rimac-automobili.com/en/hype ... ncept_one/

I'm not a fan of the burnouts either but would just love to see the look on people's faces. The Concept 1 in stock form would likely trounce the go to whoa.

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 13:04
by Richo
HuffnPuff wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 04:18
There may be some rules developed about how long the vehicle should run for. I can’t imagine an EV full of super caps that runs at well over the 2400hp of the V8, but can only accelerate for 10 seconds before needing a recharge would be considered in the spirit of the competition.
Kasterborus wrote:
Tue, 08 Jan 2019, 19:35
At this stage I don't think there are any specific rules on this, so could probably get away with some super high HP EV on Caps, at least once
It has to be driven in, Dyno tested and then driven out - depending on the event holder.
45kWh of LTO's would do it - so you could drive home no problem!
At those levels a dyno test is about 5-10kWh.

Problem is the class - forced induction or naturally aspirated...
Most of the ICE cars that get these high levels of HP are totally unreliable and are built just to roll in, test and roll out.
So it would be like for like in my opinion.

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Sun, 26 May 2019, 06:51
by Kasterborus
Richo wrote:
Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 13:04
Problem is the class - forced induction or naturally aspirated...
Though IMO the car would be "Naturally Aspirated" technically, as you're not forcing anything.

Though if using an induction motor, you're using then it could be perceived as you're using induction to force it to turn....

Re: HP in EV vs HP in ICE

Posted: Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:56
by Richo
And a BLDC is coerced. :lol: