Which 1990 4wd to convert?

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
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Caco 4x4
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Real Name: Juan Carlos Puccio
Location: Saniago, Chile

Which 1990 4wd to convert?

Post by Caco 4x4 »

Hi folks, greetings from Santiago, Chile.
I’ve been surfing the forums on EV conversions for a few months since the engine died in my 1990 Mitsubishi Montero 3.0 gasoline 4x4 5spd manual.

From what I researched the cheapest and easiest way was the DC forklift motor.
Turns out forklifts here are diesel or propane and there are no salvage electric or hybrid parts available either.
Well I decided to go AC for regenerative braking and other advantages, but kits from ev companies are too expensive and I think not powerful enough to move this 2000kg brick shaped truck.

I’ve been looking for a salvaged leaf motor and parts in the US for my conversion. Any Ideas???

Now the automatic transmission died in my 1990 Toyota 4runner 4x4. Watching Damien McGuire's videos (highly recommended) I found his GS450h conversion.
Now that my EV will be my daily driver, I will probably convert the 4runner that is in better shape. (Montero not actual foto)
1.- I want to know if it if feasible to use the Lexus GS600h or L 110f transmission to keep 4wd?.
2.- The 3.slow engine in the 4runner is in good shape and I was wondering if it could be made a Hybrid with this trans.
3.- Looking for any suggestions and ideas.

Caco


PS I am interested in keeping 4x4 but not necessary.
Performance over range so I can add batteries later.
I have a 4 km steep climb to get home.
4runner foto.jpg
4runner foto.jpg (141.27 KiB) Viewed 1273 times
1990_mitsubishi_montero_.png
1990_mitsubishi_montero_.png (1005.49 KiB) Viewed 1273 times
george
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Real Name: George Knowlden
Location: Albany, WA

Re: Which 1990 4wd to convert?

Post by george »

From my limited knowledge, some important criteria to consider when choosing a vehicle:

1) Older is better for easier integration with electronics.
2) Less rust is better: it's going to last for a long time once you convert.
3) Battery banks tend to be limited by weight more often than size (in my limited experience), so make sure you have enough spare carrying capacity to add batteries easily. For example, a Landrover Defender can carry something like 1500 kg, whereas a Suzuki Jimny ends up with more like 150 kg of spare, depending on your choice of motor. A Nissan Leaf motor and inverter together weigh around 130 kg. Maybe slightly less. Still haven't put one on the scales myself yet.
4) Ratios are critical. The diff ratio will likely be difficult to adjust very far, so you'll have to make up the rest using the transfer case, and maybe a manual gearbox. The Nissan Leaf comes with a ~8:1 reduction, which is removable, but you basically want to match the 8:1 reduction once you've removed it, so that your theoretical top speed is in the sane range of 130-150 km/h or so. If it's too tall or short, you probably won't have a good time. Bear in mind that you can run transfer cases in series to get the reduction you need.
5) Drag. Multiply the coefficient of drag (Cd) by the frontal area (height * width) to get an estimate on the drag the car will experience in pushing the air aside. It will have a big effect on your vehicle when you travel over 60 or 70 km/h or so. In general, you'll want to choose a vehicle with less drag.

Not a comprehensive list by any means, just the first thoughts that come to mind.
JHic
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Real Name: Jacques Hickey

Re: Which 1990 4wd to convert?

Post by JHic »

Hey mate Greetings
Caco 4x4 wrote: Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 10:18 From what I researched the cheapest and easiest way was the DC forklift motor.

Caco 4x4 wrote: Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 10:18 Well I decided to go AC for regenerative braking and other advantages, but kits from ev companies are too expensive and I think not powerful enough to move this 2000kg brick shaped truck.
Good call these old dc motors are horridly inefficient and can be quite hard to drive (depending on the controller paired with it) We had a few series wound DC driven vehicles around the shop and on starts in low gears they'd try and jerk you out of the seat.

As for motor power you will be suprised. The full availability of torque from 0 RPM and the large rev range of most electric motors make them able to do far more than an equivelent petrol motor. I've found that if you're using the original gearbox an electric motor of 1/3rd of the original power will do just fine as a daily for putting around in (with pleanty of grunt climbing hills in lower gears see https://fb.watch/7bNEz9RCuS/ ).
Caco 4x4 wrote: Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 10:18 I’ve been looking for a salvaged leaf motor and parts in the US for my conversion. Any Ideas???
I know that resolveEV make a control board that enables you to use old leaf components without alof of the headache convincing the original ECU's that all is well however there is alot of wiring involved and I don't have any experience with them in particular so can't comment on them. Might also be worth taking a look at the chinese motors and controlers you can find online. We've used a fair few of them in cheaper conversions and they seem to work well
Caco 4x4 wrote: Sun, 25 Jul 2021, 10:18 1.- I want to know if it if feasible to use the Lexus GS600h or L 110f transmission to keep 4wd?.
2.- The 3.slow engine in the 4runner is in good shape and I was wondering if it could be made a Hybrid with this trans.
3.- Looking for any suggestions and ideas.
1. I mean with enough time and money anything is possible right :P, Kidding aside tho I would heavily suggest going either direct drive or just using a manual transmission any kind of auto transmission will cause headaches galore (especially the newer ones with fancy ECU controlled everything). If you do chose the Manual route you can actually do away with the clutch altogether if you don't want to deal with it (just have the motor unloaded when shifting gears and the syncros can handle it)
2. Hybrids again are very complex ordeals, the control system for them to ensure you're not having the motors fight eachother or cause unesecary wear as well as accelerate smoothly together is something that would give me nightmares. If you want the benifits of a hybrid the simple solution is to make it a BEV them mount a generator in there somewhere with a decent power output to charge the batteries (will need a BMS that won't freak out about being charged and under load at the same time).
3. Keep doing your research, If you will be doing this conversion yourself consider how you can make it simpler and more feasable, Its best to start out with a rather simplistic conversion at first then upgrade things and add features as you gain confidence. And if someone else is doing the conversion keep in mind that complexity will cost you in labour time.

Side note if you're looking to upgrade pack size later consider designing it in such a way that it is easy to upgrade. Can do this a a number of ways, Designing the packs mounting location for expansion, Using a greater number of smaller capacity cells in parallel to enable you to upgrade gradually (i.e if you want 200AH and you go 1 parallel 200ah cells then to upgrade you have to do 2x 200ah cells meaning you can only double the pack. If you go 4x50ah your first incremental upgrade can be to 5x50ah a much spaller and affordable jump). You can also consider having a higher powered motor and controller than the origional pack can power (and then limit the controller with its software) so that as you expand you will be able to use the extra discharge capacity of the pack.

Actually thats something else I should mention. Pack size isn't just about range it is also about how powerful a motor it can handle. This is determined by the packs capacity multiplied by its C rating. For example a 20kWhr pack of prismatics with the usual 3C peak discharge rating can only handle a motor with a peak power of 60kW. You'd have to do the math for each case but generally I find that you need around a 100-200km range pack to cater to the minimum power requirements of the vehicle.
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