NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

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acmotor
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by acmotor »

I'm working through the NCOP14 document (see waeva links) and I am questioning the need for vented battery boxes when using sealed (SLA) batteries. True these can gas under extreme conditions of overcharge but will not release any gas (hydrogen of most concern) when a battery management system is in place. Can anyone else comment on this NCOP requirement ?
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

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No comment. Image
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

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Thanks for the enlighteneing reply PB Image
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by Lowly »

acmotor,

I was also confused about these clauses in the regulations.

Firstly I hope that I have the most up to date issue - 1 Feb 2006. (downloaded from: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... _ncop.aspx - the link on waeva is no longer working)

My understanding was that it all hinged on the first sentence of 2.2 CONTAINMENT OF WET CELL BATTERIES

"All batteries that contain liquid of give off gasses"

I am not sure where Gel or AGM batteries fit into that description.

If they do come under that description, my understanding is that all of section 2.2 and all of section 2.3 apply. If not, it seems that 2.2 and 2.3 do not apply.

However, going to the checklist at the back of the document, Section 2.2 and 2.3 seem totally separate. Section 2.3 seems to apply regardless of whether the batteries give off gasses.

I hope someone else can shed more light on this topic.

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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by acmotor »

Lowly,
Firstly, and to get me into plenty of trouble with the wet lead fraternity, I consider that wet lead acid batteries should not be permitted in EVs from a safety point of view in the first instance and from a technology point of view as well (you can do a lot better in 2008).
This position stems from the need to supply vented sealed (and insulated) battery boxes for the wet gassing batteries and the issue of free flowing acid in the event of collision or inversions (that the NCOP14 reg does not even address). It is a shame that so much of the NCOP14 is devoted to wet lead acid when there are plenty of other issues that should be addressed such as motor waterproofing.
We are asked in NCOP14 to provide a mechanical switch for battery isolation (out of fear that the contactor, that is probably incorrectly rated in V and A, will weld shut.) Give me a break ! how about some backup for the ultra critical venting system ? Priorities are wrong here.

AGMs do not contain liquids and do not give off gasses in normal operation. This is an inherent part of their design. (in fact all? batteries can give off gasses if abused)
Note NCOP14 should state "volatile" gasses and "noxious / asphyxiating" gasses to be clear.

As such AGMs do not require vented battery boxes under NCOP14 unless someone chooses to interperate (incorrectly) beyond what is stated there.
I will be presenting AGMs in non vented (and not sealed) boxes so we will see. (I use metal boxes lined with electrical insulation) A pretty safe place to put a battery.

If someone has had AGMs in non vented boxes rejected please post some info.
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acmotor
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by acmotor »

February 2006 is the current revision.

I understand that a further revision may be forthcoming in the next few months.

If you have any suggestions or clarifications now is a good time to raise them.

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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by drowe67 »

acmotor - I phoned up the DoT people here in SA and had a verbal confirmation that these clauses do not apply to fully sealed AGMs. However I am still a bit nervous - like you I will shortly be putting it to the test during an inspection.
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by woody »

acmotor wrote: Note NCOP14 should state "volatile" gasses and "noxious / asphyxiating" gasses to be clear.
I'm only being picky here as you're reviewing NCOP14 :-)

"Volatile" sounds dangerous, but it actually means a liquid which easily evaporates, e.g. Petrol, Water, Helium. I think you mean "combustible" or "explosive" gases.

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acmotor
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by acmotor »

Quite correct. Guess my petrol head past showed there.
google "define:volatile" comes somewhat to my defence though.
Yes, combustible gas would be better description.
All combustible gasses are explosive when mixed in the correct proportion with an oxidiser since an explosion is a rapid combustion which is an oxidation.
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by Richo »

Don't forget that the NCOP is the "national code of practice" each state and teritory has it's right to overrule any/all of the information provided.
It's always best to speak to your local govt regarding these matters.
If your local has already said the rule does not apply then this is all that matters not what is in the NCOP.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by Tim »

drowe67 wrote: I phoned up the DoT people here in SA and had a verbal confirmation that these clauses do not apply to fully sealed AGMs.


I should hope so as that particular bit of common sense in the CoP was based on a suggestion made by SA DoT! By me in fact. Image Though the author of the doc did his best to stuff it up - as it is clearly not clear Image Image
A Nissan Skyline GTR has an AGM in the boot as standard, not sealed from the boot/interior space... so the precedent exists. Many a grey import GTR was sent away to have the flooded battery replaced with an AGM before passing Image

Tim.
Last edited by Tim on Fri, 19 Sep 2008, 20:33, edited 1 time in total.
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by drowe67 »

Hi Tim,

Thanks for pointing out the Skyline example and inserting the AGM clause.

Yes it took a few reads to tease the information out of Information Bulletin 74, however I eventually worked out that the (i) "Containment of Wet Cell Batteries" section says "fully sealed ..... batteries need not comply with this section" and (ii) the Venting of Battery Compartments section applies only to "gases given off by normal battery operation" (AGMs emit no gases under normal operation).

Tim - do you have any other tips for EV conversions and SA DoT (such as common traps to watch for)? I am booked for an inspection in few weeks time and want to make sure I put my best foot forward.

Cheers,

David
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NCOP14 regulations, venting of battery

Post by Goombi »

Got in touch with a qld EV registered owner this is what he said when registering ,
Registration was very easy. You need to find a certifying engineer near you.
The main things he wanted were:
No batteries or high voltage wiring in the passenger cell of the car.
All wiring properly secured and batteries fully retained and terminals
covered.
No chance of acid spill in the event of a collision.(ie gel or agm batteries)
Demister to be operational.
To have a drive :-)
Rego is even slightly cheaper now.
All my cable and terminal covers etc came from Ashdown/Ingrams in Brisbane.
Ihis is the fact.

One only confusing item is. No batteries or high voltage wiring in the passenger cell of the car. Or did he mean no batteries high voltage cables( possibly without double insulation)? He has a Citroen EV
Last edited by Goombi on Sun, 28 Sep 2008, 07:25, edited 1 time in total.
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