tractor conversion

[pirpy]

Hello
I want to convert small tractor to EV

IMT-542.jpg (460 KiB) Viewed 2138 times

I have 16 x lifepo4 200 Ah for the project.
I want the conversion to be as cheap as possible, so Im looking to rewind industrial 4 pole 400 V AC motor 7.5 kWh to 22V .
original diesel engine in this tractor is 31 kW peak at 2250 rpm and 149 nM torque at 1400 rpm.
what peak torque can I expect from this motor?
As I understand I need to add an encoder to the motor, where can i get one that would work with let's say Kelly KAC-8080I

or would 10kW bldc be a better option ?

Thank you

[jonescg]

What kind of work will it be doing? Will it be doing any serious cultivation or mainly towing things? Because the motor need not be too amazing. A re-wound industrial AC motor would certainly fit the cheap requirements, but it might need some kind of cooling added.

4 pole is ideal for most applications, and any VFD will make it spin, you just need to find a reasonably efficient one.

[antiscab]

An encoder is only needed it you want fine torque control. On a tractor you could probably get away with either speed control only, or course torque control that running open loop without an encoder would offer

[Richo]

...rewind industrial 4 pole 400 V AC motor 7.5 kWh to 22V .

Although the specifications match your tractor I'm skeptical that someone would rewind it to 22Vac.
When you think about 400Vac/22Vac this is 18:1.
I'd think this would mean you'd only have 3 or 4 conductors per slot.
Or many in parallel.

This would add perhaps AUD$1,000 to the cost of the conversion.

[Richo]

Possible alternatives are a series DC motor:
A00-4009
203-06-4001
ME1002

[Richo]

Possible alternatives for Magnet motor:
ME1302
ME1616
ME1507

[pirpy]

An encoder is only needed it you want fine torque control. On a tractor you could probably get away with either speed control only, or course torque control that running open loop without an encoder would offer

thank you !


It will be doing light work, for heavy work I have this one
[tube]https://youtu.be/e2CAHfJqlFM[/tube]

The speed controll would be the best for tractor as it is the case with diesel engine.

The rewinding will not be the problem I would use the same wire but meny of them in paralel, the problem I'm expecting is with 3 or 4 wounds per coil I will not be able to make the motor 22 V but hope close to that .
I could lift the battery voltage but I'm planning to simply put my power wall 48 V lifepo4 cells to tractor and then use it for both aplications
Local rewind shop would charge me 300 € for rewinding 7.5 kW motor to lower woltage , and I already have a suitable motor in my junk bin :

7.5kW 4 pole 400 V

7.5kw.jpg (907.15 KiB) Viewed 2106 times

I also have a DC motor in my junk bin:

72 V 80 A series DC motor

6 kW DC.jpg (662.12 KiB) Viewed 2106 times

I gues I could rewind the stator coils to lower voltage but this one does not have shaft that would allow me to mount a flywheel, ....

Comments appreciated

[Richo]

As I understand I need to add an encoder to the motor, where can i get one that would work with let's say Kelly KAC-8080I

An encoder is only needed it you want fine torque control.

The Kelly controllers do seem to be the cheapest option for an Induction motor.
KAC72601-8080I USD$700
KAC72701-8080I USD$800

They require a "Dual channel A/B encoder" to work.
I'm assuming they mean a quadrature encoder.

[Richo]

Please don't buy this it's only an example
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/893080068.html

[Richo]

A curtis controller might work too:
1234SE-452X
1234SE-562X
But I expect they'll be harder to get and cost more.

[pirpy]

So kelly or slider will not work without encoder ?
in speed mode?
slider:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 3e5fw0fNC3

[antiscab]

likely the best answer is we won't know until someone tries it.
There may be a setting to run straight v/hz

It would be worth contacting kelly controls and asking

[Richo]

I did scan over the kelly manual yesterday and I was under the assumption it is required.
Someone must have already done it - its a case of finding it.
When I have more time...

[pirpy]

Hello
I find NetGain warp9 dc motor and I will put it in my tractor.
Is there a dc controller with built in regen function for this series wound DC motor?

[antiscab]

The zappy h1 controller I remember being able to do Regen from a series wound motor.

You would need to move the brush timing back to neutral, and run a lower voltage.

Tbh, it's not worth trying to get Regen out of a series DC motor

[brendon_m]

Also, how much regen is there truly available on a tractor? Not a lot of slowing down from 100km/h or coming down the blue mountains

[pirpy]

The Voltage is around 72 V.
It's not so much getting the energy, back, it's maintaining constant rpm during downhill.
In low gear you could easily explode the motor.

[antiscab]

ah, what you are asking is very difficult with a series wound motor
to achieve speed regulation would mean powering the field winding directly (ie 2V or so at 500A).
you might get away with doing this with a 12v controller, powered off your 12v battery, though you would be controlling this manually. more power through the field coils means lower rpm at which motor voltage reaches battery voltage.

you would be better off with a shunt, Permanent magnet or separately excited wound motor

[pirpy]

I would be better of with ac motor I know, but I have the motor an it cost me 500 € and it will go in.
The seller of the motor also have evnetisc soliton1 but i refused it because of not having regen.
I gues all modern dc controllers with regen are for PMDC motors right ?
like this one:
https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/kdz72801e
or this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/500A-100V-48V- ... %7Ciid%3A1

[pirpy]

ah, what you are asking is very difficult with a series wound motor
to achieve speed regulation would mean powering the field winding directly (ie 2V or so at 500A).
you might get away with doing this with a 12v controller, powered off your 12v battery, though you would be controlling this manually. more power through the field coils means lower rpm at which motor voltage reaches battery voltage.

So I take 1 pb cell and 500A starter relay and when i want to brake,I need just connect the cell to the stator and I will have maximum breaking ? the energy will go throu flywheel diode in the dc controller to battery.

[antiscab]

Yep, more or less.

Do measure the rpm the motor spins at when the field is separately powered, and the motor controller is full on.

If the motor is spinning faster than this when you connect the 2v battery to the field, the Regen current may be too high for the motor controller, which may damage the switching devices.

[4Springs]

The Voltage is around 72 V.
It's not so much getting the energy, back, it's maintaining constant rpm during downhill.
In low gear you could easily explode the motor.

This is a good thought!
I'm also looking at converting a tractor, and I had assumed that DC was the only way to go. Here was my reasoning:

• My rule of thumb is that if you use the breaks a lot, regen would be useful for you.

• Nobody ever uses the breaks much in a tractor.

• Therefore, regen would be useless in a tractor.

But what I hadn't thought of was that you don't use the breaks in a tractor because the engine breaking is so powerful. And since the breaks are really really crappy, there is no way to slow down going down a long hill. I don't think you'd explode the motor, you'd hear it first and push in the clutch. But then there is nothing to stop the tractor but the breaks. Or possibly the implement you're carrying!

[pirpy]

Right!
I have hils on my farm and when I disperse manure I always go downhill and the engine breaks so I need regen.

I'm looking at this controller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Programmable-D ... 9616a438e7

it has regen capability.
Hope it is powerfull enaugh.?

[pirpy]

In in event of crop spraying You need constant pto rpm and constant speed in down and uphill.
I have no plane fields on my farm.

[pirpy]

I order the zapi h2 601 dc controller with regen and now I need a contactor for regen, it must be SPDT type.

TFR on the picture

regen on series dc.png (101.88 KiB) Viewed 961 times

Any sugestions?