Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

How do you store and manage your electricity?
HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Sun, 08 Mar 2009, 20:42


with regards to price , it appears that the chinese govt offer assistance to chinese manufacturers with subsidised exports incentives

if i tried to buy TS LFP batteries in china they would quote me a price of $ 2.20 AUD/ AH

however , if they get some kind of approval , they are permitted to drop the price for export .

for export i was quoted $ 1.50 , then as i am also looking at other manufacturers , they dropped their offer price again , last price offered to me was $ 1.35 USD/ AH , or $ 1.00 USD/AH if i buy up to 500,000 AH of batteries , but that price is before they are even landed here. Image

i still think there must be a better way to buy batteries.

looking at 4x4kiwi's import experience , it seems import duty , tarrifs stamp duty and other fees make it a bluddee expensive proposition. Image Image

which makes me wonder how Blade electric vehicles can quote a price of $ 1.50 / AH on their website for TS batteries. ?
methinks quoted and real world might be two different bananas

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2445
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by antiscab » Sun, 08 Mar 2009, 23:36

Hi Headsup,

when we did the last group buy, i paid AUD$1.62/AH for my cells.
alot of those landing fees are fixed, so the bigger the order, the lower you pay per AH.

i think thats how blade gets the price so low.

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 21:18

I just want to know what's the real price USD$/Ah in Australia ?
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2445
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by antiscab » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 01:01

Hi Jacky,

AUS$1.62/AH was back when 1AUS$=0.92US$
so it was around US$1.5/AH
this included shipping, port charges (fixed amount in AUS$), tax (GST is 10% of total pack cost, i think that was the only one?) and delivery in the Perth area, but did not include a BMS, charger or mounting hardware. it was cells only.

the price at the factory (i think? Rob probably has a better idea) US$1.20/AH

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 02:11

antiscab wrote: Hi Jacky,

AUS$1.62/AH was back when 1AUS$=0.92US$
so it was around US$1.5/AH
this included shipping, port charges (fixed amount in AUS$), tax (GST is 10% of total pack cost, i think that was the only one?) and delivery in the Perth area, but did not include a BMS, charger or mounting hardware. it was cells only.

the price at the factory (i think? Rob probably has a better idea) US$1.20/AH

Matt


actually it is TS battery cell's price ,not most of lifepo4 factories in china now ,because they have material powder investment with other company. Usd$0.92/Ah ,it is so lower , i don't know real quality your area or other clients evaluated until now ,our company's price FOB SZ for 1C-3C prismatic cells about Usd$1.4/Ah,if 5C to 10C prismatic cells about Usd$2.14/Ah, if 10C to 20C cylindrical cells about Usd$2.14/Ah too. Actually the price had down more than before ,but not beat TS price.
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by gpsnettrack » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 07:48





"nano-scale lithium iron phosphate for batteries" is this the "powder" you are talking about ?..... Its Australian


Image
Last edited by gpsnettrack on Wed, 11 Mar 2009, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:03

gpsnettrack wrote:



"nano-scale lithium iron phosphate for batteries" is this the "powder" you are talking about ?..... Its Australian


Image


Yes it is ,not all this powder material only . Its Australian---what do you mean ?
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:05

gpsnettrack , are you talking about Admiralty Resources ?

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2445
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by antiscab » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:10

yup, i think you lost us there gpsnettrack?
perhaps a link?
as far as i know, Australia has no battery manufacturing capacity of any kind.

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:28

antiscab wrote: yup, i think you lost us there gpsnettrack?
perhaps a link?
as far as i know, Australia has no battery manufacturing capacity of any kind.

Matt


Maybe he said that material sourcing . Any investors who are interested in china's LiFepo4 battery manufactory ? TS sourced so more investors now . hehe !
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

juk
Groupie
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 02:53
Real Name: Craig
Location: Perth

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by juk » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 08:43

HeadsUp wrote: gpsnettrack , are you talking about Admiralty Resources ?


Admiralty resources sold out their lithium to a Panamanian shell company from memory. I wouldn't be the least surprised if it was director owned either, through the requisite number of trusts no doubt.

HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 09:45

Jack , do you speak mandarin ?

what did you mean when you talked about thundersky sourcing ?

do you think TS uses other factories to do manufacturing for them now ?

is that what you mean ?

Image

sorry , my mandarin is very poor

dui bu qi

xie xie ni

[ Edited Coulomb: Repaired bad Unicode chars in preparation for conversion to phpBB ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 25 Jun 2017, 12:09, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3721
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by coulomb » Thu, 12 Mar 2009, 17:03

antiscab wrote: yup, i think you lost us there gpsnettrack?
perhaps a link?
I think he means The Very Small Particle Company. They have a patent on a process that could be used to manufacture phosphate powder for LiFePO4 batteries. At the Green Car Innovation talk, he said that he was in discussions with the people that have the patent for the phosphate product that is used in the best Li-Fe cells. (Product patent verses process patent... shudder.)
As far as i know, Australia has no battery manufacturing capacity of any kind.

I think he mentioned that. When I said "but what about Century Yuasa at Wacol" (near where his lab is), he said that they just put acid into batteries made in Malaysia or elsewhere. Edit: was "fill batteries".

Sadly, I think the only complex machinery that we still manufacture in Australia is petroleum-based vehicles. Probably only up to Utility size.
Maybe we could get Latronics to branch out into AC motor drives, and get Climax Electric (or others) to make a few induction motors suited for EVs. Then make the vehicles that people really want, and export to the world. I can dream. Image
Last edited by coulomb on Sat, 18 Apr 2009, 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Sat, 14 Mar 2009, 20:08

HeadsUp wrote: Jack , do you speak mandarin ?

what did you mean when you talked about thundersky sourcing ?

do you think TS uses other factories to do manufacturing for them now ?

is that what you mean ?
   
Image

sorry , my mandarin is very poor

dui bu qi

xie xie ni


Image

i don't know what you want to ask ? i don't know you understand my real meaning in last topic. I mean TS cooperated with material company or said invested ,the cell price is lower to open the market . For others ,i can't say so more ,because it is clear in this battery field ,they all know . Hehe! Image

[ Edited Coulomb: Repaired bad Unicode chars in preparation for conversion to phpBB ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 25 Jun 2017, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Tue, 24 Mar 2009, 21:29

jackhyq wrote:
antiscab wrote: Hi Jacky,

AUS$1.62/AH was back when 1AUS$=0.92US$
so it was around US$1.5/AH
this included shipping, port charges (fixed amount in AUS$), tax (GST is 10% of total pack cost, i think that was the only one?) and delivery in the Perth area, but did not include a BMS, charger or mounting hardware. it was cells only.

the price at the factory (i think? Rob probably has a better idea) US$1.20/AH

Matt


actually it is TS battery cell's price ,not most of lifepo4 factories in china now ,because they have material powder investment with other company. Usd$0.92/Ah ,it is so lower , i don't know real quality your area or other clients evaluated until now ,our company's price FOB SZ for 1C-3C prismatic cells about Usd$1.4/Ah,if 5C to 10C prismatic cells about Usd$2.14/Ah, if 10C to 20C cylindrical cells about Usd$2.14/Ah too. Actually the price had down more than before ,but not beat TS price.


Our company's price had down so more than before in this year,
maybe will be hold the line or little higher than TS price ,but we need the more quantity to support ,i believe that it is good news for us or clients !Anybody is intereted in our products,please contact me quickly!
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Fri, 17 Apr 2009, 18:47

jackhyq wrote:
jackhyq wrote:
antiscab wrote: Hi Jacky,

AUS$1.62/AH was back when 1AUS$=0.92US$
so it was around US$1.5/AH
this included shipping, port charges (fixed amount in AUS$), tax (GST is 10% of total pack cost, i think that was the only one?) and delivery in the Perth area, but did not include a BMS, charger or mounting hardware. it was cells only.

the price at the factory (i think? Rob probably has a better idea) US$1.20/AH

Matt


actually it is TS battery cell's price ,not most of lifepo4 factories in china now ,because they have material powder investment with other company. Usd$0.92/Ah ,it is so lower , i don't know real quality your area or other clients evaluated until now ,our company's price FOB SZ for 1C-3C prismatic cells about Usd$1.4/Ah,if 5C to 10C prismatic cells about Usd$2.14/Ah, if 10C to 20C cylindrical cells about Usd$2.14/Ah too. Actually the price had down more than before ,but not beat TS price.


Our company's price had down so more than before in this year,
maybe will be hold the line or little higher than TS price ,but we need the more quantity to support ,i believe that it is good news for us or clients !Anybody is intereted in our products,please contact me quickly!


Now our price will be down so more than before again,but need mass quantity to support now !
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by gpsnettrack » Sat, 18 Apr 2009, 01:35




And the price is ??????


User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Sun, 19 Apr 2009, 01:56

gpsnettrack wrote:


And the price is ??????


Please send your exact requirements to me by email ,ok ?
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Sun, 19 Apr 2009, 02:24


companies and sales people advertise their products in different ways

some people push their product with aggressive sales doctrine

perhaps good information put on the table is the correct way

Image

[ Edited Coulomb: Repaired bad Unicode chars in preparation for conversion to phpBB ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 25 Jun 2017, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by acmotor » Sun, 19 Apr 2009, 03:24

jackhyq wrote:
Please send your exact requirements to me by email ,ok ?


That is the problem Jack.

No supplier can meet my exact requirements.
That means any battery I choose will be a compromise in one or more ways.
I must make decisions about the range of batteries offered by you and everyone else so I can make those compromises.
If a suppier is not upfront with specifications and particularly prices it makes it hard for me to make those decisions.
(I have seen your specifications at least)

For instance...
My exact requirements are (similar to most EV people) :-
weight: <1kg
volume: <1 litre
voltage: 500V
kWh: 100
cycles : enough to last 20 years in an EV
cost AUD$1 (delivered)

You did ask for 'exact requirements' Image

Now as I move away from that 'requirement' to what is actually available, I must make many compromises. One of the biggest ones is price.

If you have a pricing structure based on quantity that is fine.
The decision not to buy 1,000,000 units (and thus not get the best price) is one of my compromises.

Image
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 17:47

HeadsUp wrote:

companies and sales people advertise their products in different ways

some people push their product with aggressive sales doctrine

perhaps good information put on the table is the correct way

Image


Don't worry about any .

I am salesman that i can understand that situation.

Now i just tell everybody here that our price has down ,
and the quality and service don't down any withtout any aggressive sales doctrine.

The reliable and trustful based on clients' more reasons.

I know more information including the price , curves ,pictures and so on , i will try to put on more on the table.But different requirements with different solutions ,not all the same ,can't put others on the table ,just give rought information.

I saw so more people say that ** battery price and quality ,
but nobody give exact quality and service respond here ,i had not seen until now .

Just because cheap price(i think the price is more important for the cost too),it is direct proportion,not the cheapest is good , and how to know the quality and price is different without any test or the first touch ?

Whatever it is ,thanks for your advice.

[ Edited Coulomb: Repaired bad Unicode chars in preparation for conversion to phpBB ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 25 Jun 2017, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

User avatar
jackhyq
Groupie
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue, 22 Jul 2008, 23:42
Real Name: Jack
Location: China
MSN: jackhyq3@hotmail.com
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by jackhyq » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 17:52

acmotor wrote:
jackhyq wrote:
Please send your exact requirements to me by email ,ok ?


That is the problem Jack.

No supplier can meet my exact requirements.
That means any battery I choose will be a compromise in one or more ways.
I must make decisions about the range of batteries offered by you and everyone else so I can make those compromises.
If a suppier is not upfront with specifications and particularly prices it makes it hard for me to make those decisions.
(I have seen your specifications at least)

For instance...
My exact requirements are (similar to most EV people) :-
weight: <1kg
volume: <1 litre
voltage: 500V
kWh: 100
cycles : enough to last 20 years in an EV
cost AUD$1 (delivered)

You did ask for 'exact requirements' Image

Now as I move away from that 'requirement' to what is actually available, I must make many compromises. One of the biggest ones is price.

If you have a pricing structure based on quantity that is fine.
The decision not to buy 1,000,000 units (and thus not get the best price) is one of my compromises.

Image


Thanks for your interesting again.
I don't remember who you are ( i mean send email to you )
Can you send your requirements to me by email again?
it is better to quote my last email's content .
Thanks again.
Jack
Portable AC/DC/Solar UPS;
3D BirdView,RearView,A.I System;
1C~90C LFP/LiPo Battery ;
BatteryShow@126.Com;
www.Ponilion.Com

HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 17:53

i understand it is difficult to sell the product if nobody here has tried it.

therefore , to sell , you must showcase an example

If you sell batteries to mister xx in melbourne , and put on your website , examples of that buyers project , photographs , results , km driving range , charge configuration etc.

Then other people can look , and understand what has worked before.

it might help you.

HeadsUp
Groupie
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 09:13
Real Name: Mark W
Location: Sydney

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by HeadsUp » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 17:59

Jack

another idea , some companies will give big price discount to the first customers in a new market , they call it new market penetration discount structure.

in return for large discount to the buyers , the buyer will allow you to put information on your website about their project , with details , photographs and results, so this helps your buyers to gain confidence

Maybe ACMOTOR could help you with that , he has very refined knowledge.

best wishes

Edited
Jack
If you use my idea and get increased sales , can i have 0.2 % of the increased sales profit for the next two years ;)
Image

EDITED again

You would only need 2 - 4 showcase examples on your website of customers who used your product here in australia , i think that would be enough to boost your sales in Australia , USA , Canada and Europe

Builders and designers love to look at examples of other peoples work

xie xie
Last edited by HeadsUp on Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 08:06, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Ponilion's LiFePo4,5-33C LiPolymer battery

Post by Johny » Mon, 20 Apr 2009, 17:59

jackhyq What is going on with your website? www.ponilion.com appears to be unavailable.

Post Reply