240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

How do you store and manage your electricity?
Post Reply
carbon-rod
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 10 Jan 2020, 18:24
Real Name: Muzz

240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by carbon-rod »

Hello humans.

Just wondering if anyone knows of a single phase charger with a variable current output? Got a little side project, and need to find something that has an output voltage of upto 370VDC, but with a configurable charge rate up to 5KW, it actually doesn't even need to be a charger per se, just a step-down would be suitable... I figured there might be such a thing in the EV world...

Cheers!
User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 6357
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by coulomb »

The CAN versions of the Elcon/TC chargers, or I guess any CAN controlled chargers, allow you to specify a current and a voltage limit. But these require a battery, they won't power a resistive load.

Edit: and they are designed for 240 VAC input, they'll definitely take a hundred volts DC, but likely no more than about 385 VDC, at least in the case of the Elcon chargers.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
If you appreciate my work, you can buy me a coffee.
antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by antiscab »

the elcon/TC Charger will also work with an input that's as low as 90vac or 100vdc, albeit, at significantly reduced power

Whats the project/application?
Matt
2023 BYD Atto 3 - 21k km
2017 Renault zoe - 147'000km
2012 Leaf - 101'000km - soon to be trialing a booster battery
2007 Vectrix - 197'000km (retired)
2007 Vectrix - 50k km
carbon-rod
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 10 Jan 2020, 18:24
Real Name: Muzz

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by carbon-rod »

Ah, nice, will check them out! Thanks!

It will be used to charge a battery, but, the power source is the limit. Most chargers aim to charge as fast as possible, but when it's not charging from the grid then it becomes a problem. I can't go into tooo many details as I'm under an NDA, but the elcon might be a goer. Essentially there will be a 48V battery power source, which will be stepped up to 250VAC using a 5KW inverter, so this will feed the charger. I was toying with the idea of building a dodgy voltage doubler circuit using some caps and PWM, but, inverter seems like an easier off the shelf option!

I'm presuming that it would be quite unlikely for a 48V to 370VDC boost charger to exist ;)
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by francisco.shi »

A hybrid inverter may be able to do that. You will have to modify the feedback circuit to make the internal bus 370v.
wovenrovings
Groupie
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat, 10 Jun 2017, 22:59
Real Name: Daniel Mulder
Location: Bundaberg

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by wovenrovings »

You could check out what the Open Inverter guys (www.openinverter.org) are doing with the buck/boost converters out of the various toyota hybrid models. I'm not sure but there might be some models where is separate to the inverter.
User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 6357
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by coulomb »

carbon-rod wrote: Fri, 10 Apr 2020, 18:45 I'm presuming that it would be quite unlikely for a 48V to 370VDC boost charger to exist ;)
They're unusual, but do exist. Check out the Toyota Prius battery extender projects, for example the Enginer product. It had a 48V LFP battery and a 48V to 320ish volt converter. I suspect that they're well out of business by now, but it might give you some clues. [ Edit: now that I think about it, those might mostly be fixed maximum power but with an output voltage limit. ]

There are companies that will build a custom DC to DC converter for you. They may have a tested design on the shelf that they can modify slightly for your needs. I can't recall the name of the company (in Victoria I think) that made a custom DC to DC converter for a university project I worked on years ago. It was used to convert power from a fuel cell, those things are tricky to work with; you can't get more than a certain amount of power from them. The amount of power varies according to fuel flow and time. This one was 36V input, and I forget the output, I think some 600 V, for driving a 3-phase inverter. Ah, for that we had to use two in series. It was either CAN bus or serial control.

I seem to recall that the railway industry uses a lot of these converters.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
If you appreciate my work, you can buy me a coffee.
antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by antiscab »

I have a few dead TC Chargers on my shelf.

The input PFC stage boosts to 370vdc natively, and from what I remember, it's not overly smart.
I'll see if it works from 48vdc - that may be your cheapest solution.
They would only be good to draw up to 15A from 48v though you would only have the option of on or off for each unit
Matt
2023 BYD Atto 3 - 21k km
2017 Renault zoe - 147'000km
2012 Leaf - 101'000km - soon to be trialing a booster battery
2007 Vectrix - 197'000km (retired)
2007 Vectrix - 50k km
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by francisco.shi »

Do EV onboard battery chargers have isolation between the mains and the battery?
User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 6357
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by coulomb »

francisco.shi wrote: Sun, 12 Apr 2020, 10:39 Do EV onboard battery chargers have isolation between the mains and the battery?
Most do, some do not. Elcon/TC chargers do; Russco chargers do not.

I imagine that most if not all production EVs do provide that isolation, but since the battery is always hidden away, perhaps some don't. LEAF and iMiEV on-board chargers do isolate.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
If you appreciate my work, you can buy me a coffee.
antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by antiscab »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 12 Apr 2020, 11:21 I imagine that most if not all production EVs do provide that isolation, but since the battery is always hidden away, perhaps some don't. LEAF and iMiEV on-board chargers do isolate.
Zoe is the only production EV I know whose charger isn't isolated input to output (motor windings are used as an inductor).
AC propulsion, and possible the original Tesla roadster were a similar deal

in the conversion world, Zivan I don't think is isolated input to output.
The manzita micro PFC range of charger's definitely aren't isolated
Matt
2023 BYD Atto 3 - 21k km
2017 Renault zoe - 147'000km
2012 Leaf - 101'000km - soon to be trialing a booster battery
2007 Vectrix - 197'000km (retired)
2007 Vectrix - 50k km
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by francisco.shi »

I have been thinking of building the charger.
If I don't need to isolate then I want to build a bidirectional charger so potentially I could get single phase or 3 phase out of the charge plug which would be very convenient as off grid home energy storage.
carbon-rod
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 10 Jan 2020, 18:24
Real Name: Muzz

Re: 240VAC to 370VDC variable charge rate charger up to 5KW.

Post by carbon-rod »

This project is more of a quick off the shelf test to see if we can get a particular technology to 'work'.... If it was for producing a final product or something, then I'd definitely be going down the path of getting a proper dc-dc designed, for the time being though, having something off the shelf ends up being relatively cheap compared to having something designed up / modified.

While I was doing a little research, I did come across a relatively easy way to step-up voltages using a charge pump. If you have AC it's easy, if you're working with DC, you'd need a H bridge driver, to switch the DC into opposite polarities.. but, you could chain together these to step-up from 48v to whatever voltage you needed.. although, it may not be pretty/efficient.. But it could be a fun project for someone else! Once you have the DC voltage up to your required level, a charge controller simply PWM's it into the battery maintaining a set current with a voltage limit.

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/bl ... rcuit.html
Post Reply