Hybrids

Post by **Dave** » Sat, 19 May 2007, 00:43

Hybrids. Well the ones available to us punters. Why can't we plug them in? Why do we still have to use an ICE to charge them? Are the petrol companies really that paranoid at losing customers?

Post by **acmotor** » Sat, 19 May 2007, 04:59

Yep.
You see, the oil companies don't mind selling you half as much fuel. Then they can double the price and will still make the same money out of you while you think how great it is that you are making a "saving". Personally I think hybrids stink ! They are after all a very complex half measure until we have the batteries that the oil companies stop us from getting.
But OK, hybrids are at least a step in the right direction, but..... they take the focus off the battery development that is needed.
Yes, if hybrids were plug in I'd be a lot happier too !

Post by **RonS** » Sun, 29 Jul 2007, 18:33

At the present technology level, how would you design an
electric, non-hybrid that could undertake, say, the
Nullarbour trip? Maybe towing a caravan? Don't get me
wrong .. I agree with acmotor's sentiments, too, but what
other options do we have presently for long country trips?
The infrastructure required to provide charging stations
every (?) 150Kms would be beyond any country's budget.
Hybrids are a poor option, perhaps, but the only practical
one for long distance driving in this bloody huge country
of ours.
Hopefully the vanadium battery will sometime be
relinquished by the legal profession and made available
for use by the public. Then you really could recharge
your electric in less than ten minutes by simply exchanging
your electrolyte for recharged stuff.

Post by **acmotor** » Sun, 29 Jul 2007, 19:18

Good point, Nullarbour and all that.
As it is, the max distance between service stations out there is around 137km ? from memory. We all know of a lithium batteried Mustang locally that could make the trip station to station right now and potentially recharge in less than an hour. So we are not really that far off with the technology. OK there has to be suitable electric power available at the stations.

I still don't like hybrids.

We must only consider them as a stop gap until we get the EV act together and not have them pushed upon us and told that they are what we must have.

The issue that takes more thinking is what about aircraft ? Can we get them to be electric ? Once again it is only a question of batteries.
A jumbo weighs 250 tonne at take off, carries 150 tonne of fuel and burns around 10 tonne per hour. That will be a big challenge !

Post by **RonS** » Fri, 03 Aug 2007, 03:55

How about a very long extension cord?
Ron S

Post by **RonS** » Fri, 03 Aug 2007, 04:47

I was involved with motorcycle racing in 1968, and Honda, I think, had a tiny,five cylinder racing motor of 150cc or thereabouts that produced something like 70HP but only over a ridiculously narrow rev. range of about 7000 - 7600 rpm. Uncharacteristically for Honda, it was a two-stroke with a 22 speed sequential gearbox, and when I asked about it, the engineer told me it could theoretically give an infinitely high output power over an infinitely narrow power band.
So, why couldn't we get a good two-stroke to run at a constant speed in its narrow power band to produce lots of efficient electric power to keep batteries topped up. Because of the constant speed, it would not be difficult to get efficient fuel burn, low noise and low pollution from the two-stroke.
Anyone have any ideas on this?

Post by **Andrew** » Mon, 06 Aug 2007, 18:11

RonS wrote: So, why couldn't we get a good two-stroke to run at a constant speed in its narrow power band to produce lots of efficient electric power to keep batteries topped up. Because of the constant speed, it would not be difficult to get efficient fuel burn, low noise and low pollution from the two-stroke.

Either that or a Honda generator of a few KW.
That would increase your range while we wait for battery technology to increase and prices to come down. At least then at the lights a combustion engine can be doing more than just running your A/C and accessories. You would only have to buy a tenth the fuel, for now...

Post by **Rob M** » Tue, 07 Aug 2007, 04:13

Range extending tow along generators are available in the US now. Hook up for a long trip and away you go.
Most families have a second ICE car for long trips or are prepared to hire. Lets face it if you did regular or mostly long trips you probably wouldn't consider owning an EV. The advantages are lost when converting mechanical energy (from an ICE) to electrical and then back to mechanical again.
There are some interesting microturbine powered generators boasting 60% efficiency which would be better than reciprocating engine powered generators.
EV's are best suited to city driving especially if they have regen braking.

Post by **Thalass** » Sun, 12 Aug 2007, 07:46

(hi folks)

I've been perusing some websites recently, trying to gather info and such, and I came across an article about the Think EV, where one of the designers had modified his own version with a stirling engine powered generator. I've been interested in stirling engines for ages, so this got my attention. Being external-combustion it's a much cleaner burn, and could technically burn any flammable liquid, as long as you adjusted the burners for efficiency.

I'd like to set up my own generator system one day, after I've converted a bike and, y'know, managed to buy a house so I have a garage for it. Being a heat engine the stirling doesn't actually require fire as such, just heat. There's a company in the US (I think) that produce parabolic mirrors with a stirling generator in the focal point. Plenty of heat there!

Anyway, I think it'd be viable for along distance EV/hybrid car.

Post by **Rob M** » Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 17:15

On the Stirling Cycle engine:
They are quiet, vibration and noise free(almost) and can be quite efficient if the heat loss is kept to a minimum. The "Whisper" genset is about 5 KVA I think and runs on anything from gas to chaff.I made a model Stirling engine a few years ago and it worked OK but required a lot of heat. The difficulty is getting enough temperature differential without wasting energy. There is a neat little coffee cup model available that runs by sitting it on top of a cup of hot liquid. Plenty of interesting stuff on the web too.
I believe the potential is there but nobody has really spent the money on development. Maybe because they are unsuitable for vehicle propulsion (low torque when compared to the internal combustion engine). The hybrid does open up new possibilities for the Stirling engine since it is good at producing constant power and has high theoretical efficiency.
Didn't one of the major car companies develop a Stirling hybrid?

Post by **RonS** » Fri, 17 Aug 2007, 04:55

Some years ago NASA developed a 25Kw stirling-powered generator the size of a shoe box. The heat source was a small nuclear pile and the 'cold' end of the system was either against or outside the hull. The whole thing is known as "Oscar 7" and it's used in a lot of NASA's long duration satellite systems and space craft.
I have a largish, stirling-powered table-fan that I could demo if anyone is interested. It was made in Pakistan four years ago to a 1898 blueprint.
RonS

Post by **acmotor** » Sat, 18 Aug 2007, 05:04

Can you bring the fan to the next meeting, 22nd Sept ?
I for one would be very interested in seeing it.

Website · Post by **Simon** » Sun, 19 Aug 2007, 19:58

Here is an interesting electric aircraft thats being developed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Pb_psj1A8

www.aeroconversions.com/e-flight/

Post by **jpcw** » Wed, 05 Sep 2007, 19:39

The Stirling engine sounds interesting. I wonder if you could drop one over an ICE to make use of the waste heat? Probably more efficient to just replace the ICE and put the fuel in to the Stirling engine but a thought anyway.