Australian made batteries for EV

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EV2Go
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Post by EV2Go » Thu, 11 Sep 2014, 22:37

Agree it really needs to be an ultra cheap conversion on something common, or something well done on a classic.

For the last couple of years I have been playing with the idea of building something like a 36 Ford kit car and building it electric.

Since all the chassis, suspension, panelling can be bought new (reproduction) why not get a new car that way that no one else has?

How easy would it be to construct a car from scratch when there is only minimal 12v required... (no computer controlled anything).


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Adverse Effects
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Post by Adverse Effects » Thu, 11 Sep 2014, 23:59

something like a locost 7 (lotus 7 clone)

i have allways thought they would be a good EV

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 00:45

Yes a classic - or custom - kit car or sports car. Is most likely a more worthy candidate. A cheep and cheerfull run about is most likely better served by a 2nd hand small OEM ev.

A few imiev's kicking around online 2010 for 16k now.

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Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 11 Sep 2014, 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kieran » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 18:52

Great minds....

My current dream (read crazy plan) is to win the lotto and start building EVs using bodies/chassis from Australian suppliers (Nota Sports Cars, Tri Pod Cars, Deuce Customs/Lewis Chassis Works/Rod Tech, Old Tin, etc.). The bodies and chassis are all there, somebody just needs to plonk the EV drive line into them. Varley's EVr450 is a good example, although it uses an imported body/chassis.

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Post by T1 Terry » Fri, 12 Sep 2014, 22:51

EV2Go wrote: Agree it really needs to be an ultra cheap conversion on something common, or something well done on a classic.

For the last couple of years I have been playing with the idea of building something like a 36 Ford kit car and building it electric.

Since all the chassis, suspension, panelling can be bought new (reproduction) why not get a new car that way that no one else has?

How easy would it be to construct a car from scratch when there is only minimal 12v required... (no computer controlled anything).

This was the reasoning behind my planned '74 kombi conversion, a very basic vehicle, all the body parts are available and a classic that never looses it's appeal or value.
After watch the Electric Samba project youtube videos I'm all fired up..... well, at least more enthused would be a closer description Image

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Adverse Effects
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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 06:23

i just found this group wonder what there like

Lithium Batteries Australia

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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 13:08

You know the saying when you don't have something good to say then best say nothing at all. I will give my view based on a past experience with them below.

Kurt

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Post by Johny » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 15:33

Adverse Effects wrote: i just found this group wonder what there like

<a href="http://lithbattoz.com.au/index.php?page=battery-cells" rel="nofollow">Lithium Batteries Australia</a>
He posts on this forum as LithBattBoss (or similar) and speaks fluid marketspeak. Tends to can everything that isn't LifeTech. He is the Australian distributor for a Taiwanese company.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 18:07

lol ok i'll just walk away from that company then lol

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Post by Richo » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 20:31

offgridQLD wrote: You know the saying when you don't have something good to say then best say nothing at all.

I like the other saying - the truth hurts.

And like most things they are made overseas and shipped in.
So technically not made in Australia.

I do like their hexagonal cell holders.
Better quality than the Headway plastic.
But they are still too tight on one end.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

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Post by EV2Go » Wed, 24 Sep 2014, 22:04

Johny wrote:
Adverse Effects wrote: i just found this group wonder what there like

<a href="http://lithbattoz.com.au/index.php?page=battery-cells" rel="nofollow">Lithium Batteries Australia</a>
He posts on this forum as LithBattBoss (or similar) and speaks fluid marketspeak. Tends to can everything that isn't LifeTech. He is the Australian distributor for a Taiwanese company.
Thanks Johny you just made me smile. I forgot about those batteries that could achieve 120% SOC, delivery more power than went into them, and last at least until the earth explodes. Unfortunately you could never get a price on them...

Note: This post may contain traces of slight exaggeration, and some wild imagination.

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 05:00

I spoke with Armin, not sure who in the organisation he was but he was very helpful when I bought a BMS module to retrofit to some of their batteries I got from a secondhand e-bike. He had made a very powerful electric racing boat using several high powered pmdc motors and seemed well versed in the technology to me. I found the pricing was high but in retrospect I found high discharge cylindrical cells such as headway are more expensive anyway plus the chinese pouches wrapped in tape I bought instead because they were cheaper are bubbled at one end now and not working and their heavily used cylindrical cells with no bms work still and lost charge very slowly in storage. I don't know which anode technology these cells use but could it be Japanese?

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 05:47

btw
I have a beetle floorpan and a 2E fiberglass kit on the back-burner, it was very cheap and I agree the light weight, manual steering, availability of parts, simplicity, tractability of this highly desirable and customisable proven platform is pretty ideal. Adaptor plates exist for most common electric motors already if you want the gearbox which is robust for high torque. People love baja bugs, beach buggies, kit Lamborghini ... much better still would be an alloy version of the spaceframe type kit like the locost which has been done very successfully but the ultimate so far I have seen which is crying out for an EV version is the Axon, I spoke with them and they are around $28000 and they have never had a customer want electric but some had different motors than the VW diesel they recommended. http://www.axonautomotive.com is what I want.

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 06:02

I would settle for a Velorex or check out these photos for options
http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/fibe ... iberglass/

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Post by EV2Go » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 17:08

I was perhaps a tad harsh in my past comments, but for me I found it really hard to get past the snake oil sales pitch. Now if you were trying to sell to just me, there is a fair chance you could tell me a believable story and get me to part with my cash, but when you treat the whole forum like a bunch of idiots, and that you are the supreme guru of all things batteries... sometimes you get what you deserve.

There are some infinitely smarter people on this forum than me, and to assume that everyone knows nothing, and everyone is going to buy incredible stories, well it's just insulting to the group intelligence.

Yes the quality may have been slightly better, but was it worth prices approaching multiples of that of other solutions, I really don't think so...

You will probably note very few full car systems ever got bought, mostly e-bike packs and the like and that was because of the crazy pricing for this "exclusive" product which has probably since been superseded by newer technology.

Most of the people on this forum are down to earth hard working people who don't have money for the emperors new clothes. From what I could see from all this talk of exclusivity and superiority, it was focused around the money was being paid for a royal patent on the technology.

To me it also got up my nose because it came off as profits at the cost of moving the industry forward. I am sure the business would have moved forward with great success had it been marketed differently and with a whole lot less greed involved.

End Rant/

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Post by EV2Go » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 17:13

unheardofinstruments wrote: I would settle for a Velorex or check out these photos for options
http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/fibe ... iberglass/


Want light try these bad boys... Atom

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Post by Johny » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 17:45

Well - while we are totally off-topic.
A while ago I drooled over one of the cars here but came to realise that they are pretty lightweight vehicles and would be a problem trying to get enough cells on board without making them so heavy as to be untenable.
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Post by EV2Go » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 18:12

I believe there was an electric version made (shown on Top Gear?)

Yes sorry for drifting off topic :(

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Post by Richo » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 20:37

EV2Go wrote:Yes the quality may have been slightly better, but was it worth prices approaching multiples of that of other solutions, I really don't think so...


I came to the same conclusion.
Now there are quite a few pouch cells coming out I think this gap is going to get worse.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 21:46

various reasons for failure in my pouch cells, mechanically, the tubular ones seem to have done much better there and the bms was implicated once so I guess that is not the battery pouches fault but the construction, never had a cylindrical cell swell. Main concern, never got anywhere near the theoretical 2000 charges from the pouches but bicycle grade may be different to prismatics for cars I don't know. cylindrical ones were well used and had better charge holding capacity in storage but I will see how they go, my point is this points to them being different anode material. I know usa and japan make better anode material and get the rest made into batteries in china for the higher output/priced cells. Headway cells have a good reputation as far as I can see and exhibit similar characteristics but are priced somewhere between per Whr. I don't remember where the LEAF LiFeMnPO4 are made but I seem to think someone like panasonic.
Maybe I will check what is printed on those pouches...I am finding the good cells and re BMS-ing the 24V pack to 12V now to run my EV 12V system and be charged by the DC to DC. The `Australian' cylindricals are going on the bike. I will see how they go.


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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 22:07

I like the concept of the Atom but it is a bit ugly, no roof is kind of limiting too. I wonder what would a naked atom be, without the exhaust and motor and radiator....just the spaceframe and interior and bodypanels maybe?
the axiom guys quoted me 28000 for an unpowered shell if I sourced my own (pretty standard) running gear/hubs etc. from over here to save on weight.
I thought that was cool but waiting to win lotto first...

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Post by Johny » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 22:15

The Sonic was my choice. Sorry, I pointed the link to the Rocket.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Thu, 25 Sep 2014, 22:39

this is what i would like but i dont think it will ever happen

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Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 01 Oct 2014, 23:36

Theres a few choices for cheap lightweight sub 650 cars with decent wheelbases
that are suitable for a fun light EV conversion.
My favorite is a datsun b10 which can outhandle almost anything with simple mods,
has no need for a brake booster, high nickel steel so little rust & cheap.

eg.
Datsun 1000 rwd 625kg - 160kg for Ice components plus other mods
all weights include fluids.

eg. engine dressed with fluids 95kg, gbox 15kg, radiator 10kg, factory battery 10kg, exhaust system 15kg, door winders removed and raplaced with one piece shatter proof vw kombi style sliding windows -15kg

465kg

Mazda 1000 ute
Similar to above add 20kg for heavier suspension

Austin Healey Sprite and MG midget
although not cheap or better wheelbase they are easy enought to get
and have many parts support for handling, braking and cosmetics.

same weight as datsun 1000 but convertible

Suzuki Cappucino - rare but otherwise nice base

another favorite is the suzuki hatch which is available in 4wd in japan
with a live axle rear and can be made rwd using any live axle diff from
a rwd car like a suzuki carry, toyota ae86 or other.

Although wheelbase is not great it will be fun with big flares!

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4289/img13741.jpg

http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/ ... toHw_1.jpg

https://nagoyajapan1.files.wordpress.co ... an-rsr.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PugzPTNv2C0/maxresdefault.jpg

http://bugeyeguy.com/wp-content/uploads ... age001.jpg
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Post by unheardofinstruments » Thu, 02 Oct 2014, 03:58

I have this, a `poraga' early beetle kit car, I was trying to sell it with the I.C.E. for 2500 but nobody wanted it so I may convert it too in time.

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