Portable CHAdeMO

How do you store and manage your electricity?
Post Reply
User avatar
markrmarkr
Groupie
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue, 03 Jun 2008, 13:57
Real Name: Mark Roberts
Location: Earlwood (Syd

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by markrmarkr » Wed, 14 May 2014, 13:02

I've been keeping an eye on developments at http://www.emotorwerks.com/ and I really think we are on the cusp of a much cheaper 3-phase to CHAdeMO which is portable (as in you can put it in your boot). There is some fugliness in the approach, but it looks viable.

The cost I'm expecting will be under $5,000 AUD, perhaps well under.

If this works out it will be possible for one person or organisation (say AEVA) to buy the unit and hire it out to individuals or members who want to go on a road trip in their EV(s).

Of course then we have the problem that there has to be sufficient 3-phase outlets along the route. But at least it is a step in the right direction.

Thoughts?
MarkR

Driving a 2012 Nissan Leaf, Red - they go faster.
Autumn

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by acmotor » Wed, 14 May 2014, 16:10

Yes, good the price is coming down.
I am quite disgusted at the present CHAdeMO charger prices, they strangle the expansion of the EV charging network.

The quantity of power electronics and CAN bus control equipment in a CHAdeMO charger is far less than the VFD already in your EV.

It appears than many chargers use 50Hz 3phase isolation transformers of 30 to 50 kW rating. These are heavy and copper expensive, hundreds of kg and thousands of $.

These newer technology chargers use HF transformers for isolation with the resulting drop in cost, weight and power loss.

Basically...
3 phase bridge rectify incoming mains, with attention to RFI and PF
HF inverter via HF transformer at least 50 kHz provides isolation as required by EV, actual current and voltage control is done in this stage
Rectify and supply via CHAdeMO connector to the EV
The CAN bus handshake with EV along with charger and safety interlocks applied by supervisory micro processor.

Box it up with some fancy graphics and $5,000 is still over the top.

However, as Mark points out, finding the 3 phase outlets is the next challenge.
32A gives just over 20kW and 64A just over 40kW
At least these are a lot cheaper to install than present CHAdeMO chargers $40k ++

Surely this is all transitional though..... The EV manufacturers will install ( dual purpose ? ) large chargers in EVs or the Tesla model of pushing chargers into the community will prevail ?
The fear is that, like printer cartridges, there is an intent to control your EV charging for commercial / taxation reasons. Sorry... Skeptic there.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
markrmarkr
Groupie
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue, 03 Jun 2008, 13:57
Real Name: Mark Roberts
Location: Earlwood (Syd

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by markrmarkr » Wed, 14 May 2014, 17:49

acmotor wrote:

However, as Mark points out, finding the 3 phase outlets is the next challenge.
32A gives just over 20kW and 64A just over 40kW
At least these are a lot cheaper to install than present CHAdeMO chargers $40k ++

Surely this is all transitional though..... The EV manufacturers will install ( dual purpose ? ) large chargers in EVs or the Tesla model of pushing chargers into the community will prevail ?
The fear is that, like printer cartridges, there is an intent to control your EV charging for commercial / taxation reasons. Sorry... Skeptic there.


The CHAdeMO emotorwerks is working towards will do 20kW at least, 40kW may have to wait.

I think your fears of our EVs being "managed" against our wishes are well founded, however this approach (portable CHAdeMO) gives us a way around it. Hell, I'll tow a 3-phase generator behind the car before I go back to dealer controlled warranty and maintenance, and all that implies. Ehh!
MarkR

Driving a 2012 Nissan Leaf, Red - they go faster.
Autumn

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by acmotor » Wed, 14 May 2014, 18:15

markrmarkr wrote: ..... Hell, I'll tow a 3-phase generator behind the car before I go back to dealer controlled warranty and maintenance, and all that implies. Ehh!


Fair sentiment. There does seem to be too much profit without value adding.
Though I'd tow 20kWh of batteries behind before going he hybrid direction. Image


iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1707
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by g4qber » Sat, 24 Jan 2015, 17:22

http://www.quickchargepower.com

upgrade your EV conversion to CHAdeMO soon.
found out about them on EV West's EV Show
http://insideevs.com/new-ev-show-episod ... demo-rav4/

they are currently doing tests on their RAV4 EV.
http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=849

Last edited by g4qber on Sat, 24 Jan 2015, 06:28, edited 1 time in total.
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 196

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2734
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by jonescg » Fri, 29 May 2015, 02:07

So has anyone seen evidence of a ChaDeMo kit for EV conversions in use?

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/CHAdeM ... qscsfapp03

Looks the goods, but has anyone ever installed this on their converted car? What's the CAN signal the charger is looking for? And does this gizmo exist? There's probably a decent market for retrofitting vehicles with the above kit...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3613
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by coulomb » Fri, 29 May 2015, 03:40

jonescg wrote: So has anyone seen evidence of a ChaDeMo kit for EV conversions in use?

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/CHAdeM ... qscsfapp03

Looks the goods, but has anyone ever installed this on their converted car?

So that's US$800 (I presume US$) plus shipping, and they don't ship to Australia or nearly anywhere else. Just for the inlet and a metre of cord.

For home conversions, I think this is not practical, especially if you wanted to use the chademo to 3-phase adapter. Why not put a 3-phase charger in the boot, connected by a beefy finger-safe anderson or other more moderately priced connector?

Of course, if you have access to a real chademo charger, then it might be worth the expense of the connectors and figuring out the reportedly complex protocol. I believe it's one of those closed protocols, where you have to pay heaps to get the info on it, and pay more to get certified as compatible as well. It just doesn't sound DIY to me.

I'm afraid that I don't agree with ACmotor's statement that $5000 would be overkill for a chademo-like charger. It's a serious power switching device with cooling and EMI issues. The actual charge algorithm is up to the car, but that would be the simplest part of a 50,000 W charger (or even a 20,000 W or 10,000 W charger if you were doing a cut down version). A real chademo charger has to be able to handle a wide range of pack voltages (though "only" up to 500 V, so not enough for at least several conversions in Australia), though again you could cut down on the voltage range for a particular car or a few models.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, PIP-4048MS inverter, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
reecho
Senior Member
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun, 17 Apr 2011, 02:39
Real Name: Richard Baird
Location: Perth WA
Contact:

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by reecho » Fri, 29 May 2015, 04:09

EVTV is working on a kit with a Yazaki harness and the JLD505 CAN module. Damien Maguire is working hard to debug the firmware. Results are amazing so far...

Check out the following Youtube video on his "Land Yacht".... Image

Youtube

Bear in mind some development work may be required for stations such as Veefil that they haven't been able to try directly and debug.

Maybe under $1500 for a full kit. Plus some install and debug work. Almost a no brainer for modern conversions....

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2734
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by jonescg » Fri, 29 May 2015, 04:48

That's that I was thinking - I don't need a fast charger in my garage, I just want a fast charge inlet on my conversion so I can use the fast chargers on the Electric Highway. If it ends up costing more than $6k I'd be better off buying a Brusa charger and making a 22 kW Mennekes 'Fast AC' adapter. The slow AC can be a 7 kW AC charger with a J1772 inlet.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
reecho
Senior Member
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun, 17 Apr 2011, 02:39
Real Name: Richard Baird
Location: Perth WA
Contact:

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by reecho » Fri, 29 May 2015, 05:51

Chademo JLD505 Manual for those interested....

User avatar
g4qber
Senior Member
Posts: 1707
Joined: Sat, 31 Jul 2010, 06:27
Real Name: Joseph
Location: Perth
Contact:

Portable CHAdeMO

Post by g4qber » Sun, 18 Sep 2016, 16:09

2011 i-MiEV - k kms 196

Post Reply