J1772 Adapter

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Johny
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Post by Johny » Wed, 21 Nov 2012, 14:20

I woke up one morning - yawned, stretched and looked around.
Almost nowhere in Melbourne could I see a charger outlet that wasn't J1772 - at least the ones I might be interested in.
It's highly unlikely that I'll ever charge the Vogue anywhere but home and work, but wouldn't it be nice if I could.

So I emailed the guy at http://www.tucsonev.com/

Me
Hi
Can you give me a shipping price to Australia for the J1772 Inlet only - no wires.
Also a price for say five of them in case I can get others interested in sharing the shipping cost.
Thanks
John


Him
John,
I just love to look up rates for International, it sometimes makes no sense – like now.

The Inlet is about 3.5”x3.5”x6, so the smallest Priority International Box it fits in is the Medium box, 11”x8.5”x5.5”, for $47.95. And it is big enough for 10 of them, so I would suggest getting together 10 mates and splitting the cost.

If you order 10, I’ll give you a 10% discount.
J1772 Inlet alone, each - $110
Shipping 1 or 10 to Australia - $47.95
You can use my PayPal account, EV@TucsonEV.com for payment. Just go to Paypal.com and click on the send money tab, put in my account, and follow the prompts.

Everything is in stock, so as soon as PP notifies me of payment, I can send the product out to you.
Thank you for the order,

Rush Dougherty
Dougherty Designs
12800 W Big Valley St
Tucson, AZ 85736
520 240-7493
www.TucsonEV.com


Anyone interested?

Edit: Sorry unwittingly hit post before I'd finished.

Last edited by Johny on Wed, 21 Nov 2012, 03:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Thu, 06 Dec 2012, 18:12

I see that no-one has responded to this post.
Any reason?
Rush has followed up asking if we want to order any.
I'm not totally sure I want one either but what's the reasoning from others?


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Post by jonescg » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 00:02

I'd consider getting the socket (car receptacle) built into the filler compartment of the CRX, rather than having the lead to contend with... Does he sell them alone?
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Post by Johny » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 00:22

Yes. Check out his web page in the first post.

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 00:40

I might be interested in a receptacle and 4 m of wires (to the onboard chargers located under the bonnet). I still don't know what to do about the power supply, as even a 15 A circuit (with a 20 A breaker) will be pushing it - 4 kW worth of chargers is a fair old load. I might get a dedicated household circuit built closer to the day, but opportunity charging will have to be limited to 15 A sockets.

My reasoning is that my conversion is some time away! Image
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Post by acmotor » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 06:32

If you are going to put a J1772 socket on a conversion (by the way, smart thinking) You'd want to add the EV control unit otherwise the EVSE feeding the J1772 plug won't give you any power.

example: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/J1772-Active ... 3a7bcd1952
(ebay item 251185142098)

BTW, Personally I would have the safety smarts of J1772 added to NCOP14. But then some folk complain about having to wear a seat belt in a car, crash helmet on a bike or carry an EPIRB and flares etc on a boat... and only fit RCDs in a house because it is a requirement. Image

Do you remove any other power connectors to the EV ? Probably should.
Then you'd need the J1772 plug and an EVSE to complete the package.

So, Johny, maybe cost, and the other circuitry required to go with the J1772 connector puts converters off ?

BTW the tusconev link was dead when I tried it. Image
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Post by Johny » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 14:24

Here is a working link to the seller of the J1772 hardware.
http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 16:19

Tuarn, without any jargon, can you please explain the J1772 'package' from circuit breaker to battery charger?

It looks to me as if it's an EV-specific mains AC plug which supplies power to your chargers, however there are some smarts in there as well which stop it from carrying current when conditions aren't right. How smart are the smarts? Would I not be able to use a public charge point if I don't install all these extra components?
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Post by CometBoy » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 18:03

If you are looking at using the J1772 maybe have a read of this thread on the Nissan Leaf Forum

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10749

Provides some interesting real life experiences with the connector and charge stations etc

Here is a quote from the Moderator of that forum on the 27th of November....

"J1772 was originally designed with 32A in mind (J1772-2001), but was later updated to support a maximum of 80A (J1772-2009).

It does seem that some sort of thermistor would be prudent - along with the onboard charging monitoring voltage drop as it ramps up, though it would have a hard time distinguishing voltage drop caused by a single hot-spot compared to a long service run.

I wonder if a some sort of dielectric grease or switch grease on the pins might help or make things worse?

J1772 power pins are 3.6mm in diameter or about the same as 7 AWG - it does appear that the pins should provide plenty of surface area which should result in any hot spots being focused on the base of the pin provided that good contact is being made.

Looking at Tony's pics, though, make it clear that the heat was focused on the inside half of the pin.

The pins on the inlet appear to be some sort of bi-metal construction - maybe a combo stainless/copper pin perhaps to reduce the electrical resistance of the pin as stainless has a much higher electrical resistance than copper.

It would be interesting to do a proper failure analysis on Tony's connector and inlet.
"

Can't see any issues for those of us DIY builders using slow 7.5 to 15 amp chargers but for more serious commercial EV applications at higher currents could have issues especially if using cheaper Chinese J1772 products on either end.

Cheers
Bruce

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Post by Renard » Fri, 07 Dec 2012, 23:25

Johny wrote: I see that no-one has responded to this post.
Any reason?
Rush has followed up asking if we want to order any.
I'm not totally sure I want one either but what's the reasoning from others?


Johny, I didn't see your post. But on reading it. I thought over it and I'm inclined to wait until I see whether I need the J1772 when I've been driving for a while. And by then there may be cheaper sources, or they may have been superseded.
I notice that Rod Dilkes is offering what looks to be identical for $159 which is perhaps not coincidentally similar to the one-off price you quote.
Renard

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Post by Johny » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 02:12

Yes I saw that Rod had them.
I think the general consensus is wait and see if they are.needed. I agree.
If I was.to buy a one off I'd get it from Rod.
Last edited by Johny on Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 02:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CometBoy » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 04:05

The J1772 setup I was looking at making a few months ago was the Arduino based EV J1772 Charging Station by “flyguy” on instructables website.

See http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino ... /?ALLSTEPS

Liked the GFCI function.

Decided like others here to wait and see what plays out in the next couple of years. It’s a lot of money to spend and the current local Chargepoint stations I use are Level 1 anyway.

Cheers
Bruce

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 07:47

jonescg wrote: .......without any jargon, can you please explain the J1772 'package' from circuit breaker to battery charger?......
Ummmm does no jargon mean no technical data ? Image

perhaps first go wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
....
"The J1772 standard includes several levels of shock protection, ensuring the safety of charging even in wet conditions. Physically, the connection pins are isolated on the interior of the connector when mated, ensuring no physical access to those pins. When not mated, J1772 connectors have no voltage at the pins,[15] and charging power does not flow until commanded by the vehicle.[14]

The pins are of the first-make, last-break variety. If the plug is in the charging port of the vehicle and charging, and it is removed, the control pilot and proximity detection pins will break first so that the Power Pin relay in the charging station will be shut off and no current will flow"....

There is a lot out there on J1772.
It is the first real attempt at making EV charging safe and simple for Joe Average.

A full J1772 system, in particular for domestic charging, starts with a devoted circuit from the property switchboard. This would be a MCB/RCD or ELCB at sufficient current for the EVSE located where the EV is to be charged. The EVSE has a heavy duty, very flexible power lead to a J1772 plug that goes into the EV power connector.
Now the devoted circuit may be a standard 15A GPO with an inline EVSE (so called occasional use EVSE supplied with commercial EVs).
..or just any 10A GPO but beware. There can be problems. see the topic holden volt
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Post by coulomb » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 14:33

There is also my What an EVSE provides topic; J1772 is the most popular (at present) level 2 EVSE standard. Acmotor, thanks for the "first-break, last-make" comment; I've included it in the EVSE post as the first (and so far only) benefit of an EVSE that you don't get (at least most of) with a dedicated, high current GPO.

[ Edit: this link I find fascinating and informative, and possibly more relevant here than on the EVSE topic, though the applicability to Australia is unknown:

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Open_EVSEs ]
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Post by coulomb » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 14:57

coulomb wrote: ... this link I find fascinating and informative, and possibly more relevant here than on the EVSE topic, though the applicability to Australia is unknown:

Though on further reading, one of them is from Australia, and has very detailed step by step photos:

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/EVSE_LORDSn1per

Note that some of the home-built EVSEs are rated at 75 A, 240 V (see navigation panel).

I should add this disclaimer: this type of equipment handles very high power levels, much higher than anything else in your house (except perhaps an electric stove or high power air conditioner). The potential (no pun intended) for electric shock or fire through incorrect installation is quite high. Connection to the mains by other than qualified electricians is illegal, and if you burn your house down through incorrect installation, the chances that your fire insurance provider will ignore your negligence is vanishingly small. You have been warned.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 16:02

coulomb wrote:
coulomb wrote: ... this link I find fascinating and informative, and possibly more relevant here than on the EVSE topic, though the applicability to Australia is unknown:


What, coulomb quotes coulomb ! Image

Seriously though, from a general public user point of view, J1772 / EVSE offers some of the best features of EV charging so far. Even to the point where most of the features apply when the occasional use EVSE is plugged into a GPO. Cost, like most things EV, is still high. But will EV charging systems still have their critics when the cost comes down ?
Actually, one reason I have purchased a production EV is that if not enough people do then the price will not come down. At least at this stage power is often free and there is no road tax bite on power. Image

Perhaps we need to start a comparison table of features (user, safety etc) of various EV charging systems ? or is there one out there already ? Any takers ? We could wiki up the table.
Equipment costs, installation costs, Electricity authority approvals, Insurance company approvals, EV manufacturer approvals.
IP ratings (inc. rain operation) etc. Ability to detect and protect from faults and so on. Ease of use, even make break cycles. Ignition potential from break under load situations and contact damage. There is a lot to consider.

Actually, another feature of going down the EVSE route is that there is a box that can have new features added to it. Like Time of day charging, smart meter control, charge kWh logging, internet access etc.(although many EVSEs contain these already).
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Post by Simon » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 17:13

When there are actually public EVSE units installed I would consider it. Are there any in Perth yet?
Last edited by Simon on Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 06:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 19:25

EVshop carpark.   et.al.

Whilst the EV community debates the need for and the standards for EV charging we won't get many installed.
The vehicle manufacturers will make a hopefully informed decision for us anyway.
J1772 compatible EVs already....
    Mitsubishi i MiEV 3.3kW + Peugeot and Citroen rebadges
    Nissan Leaf 3.3kW
    Chevrolet (Holden) Volt 1.38kW
    Fisker Karma
    Coda Automotive sedan
    Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid
    Honda Fit EV
    Ford Focus Electric
    Azure Transit Connect Electric
    Rapid Electric Vehicles 300 ACX
    smart electric drive
    Tesla Roadster using J1772 mobile adapter.
    Tesla Model S using J1772 mobile adapter.
    OKA NEV ZEV AC
    Th!nk City
    Blade Electron Mark VI and Electron "Deep Green"
    Renault Kangoo Z.E. (230 V - 16 A max.)
    Renault Fluence Z.E.
    BMW ActiveE
    Brammo Empulse
   

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Post by jonescg » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 19:53

OK, so it's like a plug with a built in relay for switching the AC supply on. EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) means "power supply". If I had a smaller battery in mind I'd just go with a standard 10A GPO fittings, but a >30 kWh battery demands faster charging and therefore some heavier duty plugs.

What does the socket (car mounted receptacle) use to activate the flow of power in the plug? A reed switch or low voltage signal wires?
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 08 Dec 2012, 22:29

Low voltage (12V analogue signalling).
A switch on the J1772 plug latch also causes charger shutdown.
This latch is very much a missing item if you are using a basic GPO (10,15,32A) such that GPO plug can be half out or the cable hanging on the plug causing damage.

The J1772 / EVSE system operates from 6A to some big number, depending on the supply, plug and the EV onboard charger of up to 80A.

For example the iMiEV uses a 20A J1772 plug, 2.5sqmm cable to feed the onboard charger at up to 3.3kW (around 6A to 14A max). So conservative.

The EVSE is configured to supply a rated current, depending on its installation. Typically 32A for hardwired EVSE available in Oz presently and 10A (via a 15A GPO) for the 'occasional use' cable.
( 6A in the case of the GM Volt )

Do read the Wiki link in earlier post or look at one of the many open EVSE sites for more detail on the 1kHz signalling, the pulse width of which tells the EV what current it can draw after the analogue voltage handshake that verifies various safety requirements like EV present, ground connected, no cable faults, battery pack ventilation etc and keeps the power off until all is satisfied as well as shutting it off if someone pulls the plug.

The EV itself will only draw current up to the max of its onboard charger irrespective of what the EVSE can supply.

Hey, I'm an advocate for J1772 since my iMiEV has it ! Image Image
Thing is, I respect the thought that has gone into this standard.

Can't wait for some CHAdeMO for the connector on the other side of the vehicle !
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Post by Shirker » Mon, 17 Dec 2012, 15:23

Simon wrote: When there are actually public EVSE units installed I would consider it. Are there any in Perth yet?

I'm surprised acmotor didn't answer this!

Recargo says 4 stations in Perth with J1772:
http://www.recargo.com/search?search=Pe ... &lat=&lng=

The next generation of J1772 will be more interesting to me (not the least because I have nothing to plug into it yet!) - more safety features, DC fast charge and a more communicative interface (I hesitate to say "smarter", as really the choice of IEEE's networking layer will just make it enormously more complex and expensive..)

David, who builds and sells the elegant little vehicle-side J1772 device called AVC-2 (see http://stores.ebay.com/Modular-EV-Power) has some educational comments on J1772 here: http://modularevpower.com/J1772_2012.htm - including a picture of the next-gen J1772 connector (ain't backward compatibility a bear!).

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Post by electricsheep » Thu, 27 Dec 2012, 23:25

Hi there - I've fitted some J1772's to retrofit EV's. (CERES ZEV Berlingo and CERES Mercedes Sprinter van). A few points to note re fitting them:
1. Needs some smarts to be installed in the socket before it will work with public chargers;
2. public charge providers won't accept retrofit EV customers without the J1772 being installed to their standards (as well as having the 'smarts').

Cheers
Bryce

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