624V of SLA chargers

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Mesuge
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624V of SLA chargers

Post by Mesuge »

I'll expand the previous posts about SMPS with "chargers", look at their catalogue pages #55-58, several ways
(power levels, efficiencies, %tol. and ripples) for 48V charging (120-1000W):

1/ pulse/voltage (bat./current detection) basic charger (55.2V with 105% overload for 14.49V)
13.8V but the bad component tol. could push it >13.9V, no good, tunning/mod needed

2/ 3-stage smart "fast" chargers (57.6V)

3/ 2-8stage smart "fast" chargers (57.6V - micro_programmable)

4/ power adaptors with charging function (54.4V ~ 13.6V float)

http://distributor.meanwell.com/member/ ... atalog.pdf
charger pages #55-58
Last edited by Mesuge on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by acmotor »

Yeh, some nice chargers there.

A list of desired features for EV chargers comes to mind...

* pf correction to >.95
* inrush current limit in the case of multiple chargers <30A
    (there is no excuse for this to be so high with smart input SMPS,
    particulary active pfc types)
* efficiency >90% at full load
* power loss <1W at no load
* IP/OP isolation >3kVAC
* overcurrent limiting by cc operation with auto reset
* overvoltage shutdown and warning requiring power shutdown to reset
* temperature correction (via remote sensor)
* overtemperature shutdown for battery and charger.
* voltage dependent current profile with fallback to float voltage at
    end of charge.   (i.e. many stage charge profile)
* remote current control and shutdown for BMS to connect to. (including
    an "I'm not in a rush, take all night mode".
* some LEDs or data output to remote for monitoring.
* better than IP20 housing if charger is to be located under bonnet.
* metal flame proof enclosure.
* method of clamping (or different connector) IEC connector for use in
    EV mobile application.
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Post by antiscab »

interesting,

when i was asked by protech for a list of features for EV charger i gave a rather similar set of answers.

though i did neglect temp compensation, since i have only encountered the need for it with lead acid. With lithium, its more, charge the same, unless temp is out of bounds, in which case, dont charge at all.
That kinda makes it a BMS function.

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Post by acmotor »

Yes, there is a crossover between BMS and charger on some points.

The truth is that all systems should be temperature sensitive to protect against fault conditions if nothing else.
I am still under the impression that most EV battery pack fires etc occur during charging so that is why I would seek more intelligence in chargers. Even to the point of Ah monitoring by BMS or charger.
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Post by Squiggles »

So a charger that communicated with the BMS could be a good thing?
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Post by woody »

Squiggles wrote: So a charger that communicated with the BMS could be a good thing?
Definitely. This could be simple: "I'm full, quit charging", but even better would be:
"Give me X amps @ Y volts".

If the BMS keeps track of amps out + in, that could be a real efficiency, safety + cycle life feature.
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Post by Richo »

acmotor wrote: A list of desired features for EV chargers comes to mind...

* pf correction to >.95


I was under the impression that this would be compulsory by the end of the year.
Otherwise it won't pass c-tick etc...
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by acmotor »

Image That will rule out the majority of electrical equipment on the planet.
It would be a good move though !
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Post by antiscab »

terrific, though, alot of the chargers and powersupplies i use dont have any approval ratings at all :p

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Post by coulomb »

acmotor wrote: That will rule out the majority of electrical equipment on the planet.

Perhaps the majority manufactured in China for the North American market. But my understanding is that the EU has been insisting on at least 0.9 pf for years. So we'd just switch to Chinese gear made for Europe instead, and pay the extra dollar for the extra chip and transistor. Or whatever it is.
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Post by Johny »

A non-PFC corrected SMPS causes the line current to momentarily peak as follows:
Image
So if you had 10 or 12 of these supplies how hard would it be to calculate Inductor and capacitor values so that, at full load (where the problem is worst), the SMPSs were phase delayed such that the current peak was spread in time across the AC half-cycle.
The Inductors and caps to go in series with the input AC so the SMPS didn't even have to be opened.
This would surely improve the power factor for those cheapies.

Most of use have more than one charger...
I wouldn't be surprised if the cap values worked out to be similar to small single phase AC motor start caps.
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Post by acmotor »

The input current waveform is not a symetrical half sine of reduced form factor but the graphic is a good explanation.

Unfortunately we are charged for kW and not kVA.
kVA would always have been my preference if I were in charge of power generation as generators push VA not Watts and the distribution system handles VA. (true, some industrial customers are penalised for bad pf)

If you were billed for kVA there would be a financial incentive for consumers to purchase unity pf equipment rather than it having to be a legislative demand.
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Post by coulomb »

Johny wrote: So if you had 10 or 12 of these supplies how hard would it be to calculate Inductor and capacitor values so that, at full load (where the problem is worst), the SMPSs were phase delayed such that the current peak was spread in time across the AC half-cycle.

Ah, you mean have different valued L (and possibly C) on each charger so their current peaks spread out? The fact that the current spikes aren't half sinusoidal doesn't really matter; just spreading 10+ of them out over time has to help a hell of a lot.

That's a really interesting idea. I suspect that the inductors would be rather large and heavy. Also, I suspect that the C's would have to be an appreciable fraction of the size of the power supply's C, so I'd suggest more than a few microfarads. Tricky if they have to be non polarised. You'd probably need pi networks (LCL with the C going from the junction of the Ls to neutral); a tapped inductor would probably work. Maybe someone has spice or similar set up to model this?

You could possibly model the capacitor charging current moderately well as a square wave from say 85 to 90 degrees, with peak amplitude of 90/5 = 18 times the RMS current. (Or do I mean average current there? I'm really rusty on this basic stuff.)

With just a series inductor, all you would do would be to smooth out the current somewhat, but not change the timing of the peak. With LCL, presumably you could change the timing, so the middle C would be supplying a good part of the current to charge the main power supply capacitor.
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624V of SLA chargers

Post by Mesuge »

The Insight PHEV guys (P. Perkins & gang) are using similar smps to fight the aging/imbalances of their OEM IMA Honda pack (Panasonic NiMH) - so they charge it <0.08C

It's based on CC 48V power supply for running LED light assemblies, some models feature adj. current & voltage, PFC, eff. <90%, over current/voltage/temp protection etc. Funny, it's made by the same brand/source as mentioned above. Unfortunately, these seem to be strictly 48V (43.6 ~ 51.8V) so tough luck with Pb, but should accomodate 14x3.2V Li-ion type of setups and alike.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/mo ... ancer.html

http://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/product ... efault.htm
Last edited by Mesuge on Wed, 14 Oct 2009, 21:36, edited 1 time in total.
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