America's big three and the future of the ICE

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
Post Reply
User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 20:00

I am like some of the American taxpayers in questioning why I should be asked to bail out American vehicle manufactureres.

"The manufacturers have failed to adapt to the changing requirements and expecations of the market" is one quote I heard.
Funny thing, I seem to have heard that for years.
Even on this forum, I have been told that the manufactureres are so wonderful in their understanding of the market.
So now, with the world economics on a bumpy road, it is crunch time - and not for the EV1 this time !

Image
Last edited by acmotor on Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 12:35, edited 1 time in total.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

htial
Groupie
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 02:44
Real Name: Laith
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by htial » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 20:20

This amuses me too...   ...Lets hope that if GM falls, Holden can at least hold on...   ...I would hate to see a company like Holden fail because of someone else...

And maybe we might see an "EV2" some time soon...

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 20:40

Best hope for Holden is autonomy. If GM is in trouble then it will not try to hold up any outposts, only natural in business.
Historically Holden has not stood alone. Now is the time.
If anyone is on the inside then don't sit on your hands.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

User avatar
tdean
Groupie
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 20:07
Real Name: Terry Dean
Location: South Australia
Contact:

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by tdean » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 20:53

Yes I've been watching this big three bailout fiasco with interest too. It doesnt look good for them when your CEO's fly into town in private jets and then proceed to ask Congress for a bail out,screaming poverty. What a cheek!

I just heard somebody say american assembly line workers were making $70.00 per hour, whereas the Japanese are paying their workers $40 ph, jees no wonder cars are so expensive to build in the US.

If these 3 major companies go belly up it wont be the end of the world for building cars, like they make out, the real problem is the demand has dropped dramatically for any new vehicles.

Why can't Australia make its own cars?
"We only have one future, and it will be made of our dreams, if we have the courage to challenge convention." - Soichiro Honda

User avatar
EV2Go
Senior Member
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 00:21
Real Name: Paul
Location: Brisbane 1963

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by EV2Go » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 21:02

acmotor wrote: I am like some of the American taxpayers in questioning why I should be asked to bale out American vehicle manufactureres.

"The manufacturers have failed to adapt to the changing requirements and expecations of the market" is one quote I heard.
Funning thing, I seem to have heard that for years.
Even on this forum, I have been told that the manufactureres are so wonderful in their understanding of the market.
So now, with the world economics on a bumpy road, it is crunch time - and not for the EV1 this time !

Image


Understanding the market and adapting are two very different things...

i.e I understand your problem, I just could give a rats while someone is standing behind me filling my wallet Image

Mark T
Groupie
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri, 04 Jan 2008, 03:56
Real Name: Mark Taylor
Location: Sydney

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by Mark T » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 23:23

Plug in America have this No Auto Bailout without strings page. At least someone has the right idea.

User avatar
acmotor
Senior Member
Posts: 3595
Joined: Thu, 26 Apr 2007, 03:30
Real Name: Tuarn
Location: Perth,Australia

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Nov 2008, 23:42

I am not certain I would favour a bailout. (do they work ?)
You need some ashes for new life to rise from.
There will be pain.
iMiEV MY12     105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !

Gow864
Groupie
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun, 27 Jul 2008, 04:37
Real Name: (John) Gary
Location: Bellingen NSW

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by Gow864 » Sat, 22 Nov 2008, 06:22

Let them burn!


If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2358
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by antiscab » Sat, 22 Nov 2008, 07:43

i cant wait for the day my tax money is no longer being used to prop up a company i hate.

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

juk
Groupie
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 02:53
Real Name: Craig
Location: Perth

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by juk » Sat, 22 Nov 2008, 14:48

Regret of the Day – The heads of GM, Ford and Chrysler flew from Detroit to Washington yesterday
to front House and Senate committees in an attempt to get $25bn from the Government’s $700bn
TARP bailout.
There are 24 daily commercial flights on the route from Detroit to Washington.
They all flew in private jets.
A committee representative said “Its like seeing a guy show up at the soupkitchen in high-hat and tuxedo…
I mean couldn’t you all have downgraded to first class, or jet pooled or something to get here?”.
“I am going to ask the three executives here to raise their hand if they flew here commercial.
I’m going to ask you to raise your hand if you’re planning to sell your jet…and fly back commercial”.
“Let the record show no hands went up”.
“I’m not an opponent of private flights by any means, but the fact that you flew in on your private jets at
the cost of tens of thousands of dollars just for you to make your way to Washington is a bit arrogant before you ask
taxpayers for money”.

Gow864
Groupie
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun, 27 Jul 2008, 04:37
Real Name: (John) Gary
Location: Bellingen NSW

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by Gow864 » Sat, 22 Nov 2008, 14:51

I've heard that the car industry in Australia is subsidised to the tune of $300,000 per worker (not sure how true this is).

So let's give the workers $100,000 each per year to go sit on their ar*ses.

It's pretty clear that car industries in most countries are part of a false economy, a way for governments to appear to be building jobs, when the reality is a form of welfare keeping an industry going that really shouldn't be.

My business has some cashflow problems at the moment perhaps I should fly down to Canberra and see how willing the Government is to pay my debts for me I mean come on I employ 8 people.


If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

User avatar
tdean
Groupie
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 26 Aug 2008, 20:07
Real Name: Terry Dean
Location: South Australia
Contact:

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by tdean » Sat, 22 Nov 2008, 17:20

juk wrote: There are 24 daily commercial flights on the route from Detroit to Washington.
They all flew in private jets.
A committee representative said “Its like seeing a guy show up at the soupkitchen in high-hat and tuxedo…
I mean couldn’t you all have downgraded to first class, or jet pooled or something to get here?”.

A first class air fare would have cost around US$880 at worst, one of the private jets costs US$20,000 for the round trip to Washington. Today we hear that Ford is considering selling its jets, jee I guess that means they wont need to ask for so much next month.

One of the CEO's said that he had taken a 50% pay cut this year which seems like quite a sacrifice but later you find out that he was paid $16,000,000 last year!
"We only have one future, and it will be made of our dreams, if we have the courage to challenge convention." - Soichiro Honda

Goombi
Senior Member
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun, 10 Aug 2008, 17:59
Real Name: Eugen
Location: Gympie

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by Goombi » Fri, 28 Nov 2008, 02:42

Disgracefull... how about here 6.5 Billion to Auto industry over few years --70Mill to Toyota to make Prius and for 22 mil to see if they can reduce fuel consumption of their 6 cyl 4 ltr turbo charged FORDS.
When i asked to support Converters i was told only companies with PTY LTD have any chance. The small converters are known as Bolshewicks what the government promises them is a free Hammer and sickle and plackards to protest.. and some rocks to make baricades... Ecconomic rationalists.
I feel sick...--But no more petrol money for Kevin and Arabs from me

User avatar
Thalass
Senior Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun, 12 Aug 2007, 07:29
Real Name: Ben Rypstra
Location: Perth, WA, AU

America's big three and the future of the ICE

Post by Thalass » Sun, 30 Nov 2008, 05:41

I was thinking at the time that I could make one hell of an EV for 70 million...

Imagine if ZEVA got that!
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

Post Reply