getting small business to share their powerpoints

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clayton4115
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getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by clayton4115 »

On our frequent road trips / day trips to the country we pass many small towns along the way. it got me thinking that all these small shops / workshops. tyre repair stores, petrol stations, cafes etc have powerpoints, I was would not mind communicating with them to get see whether they would be interested in joining onto the plugshare map if they are willing to share their powerpoint for a few hours and perhaps for a fee of $10. Maybe it will save an EV driver one day. For example between Toowoomba and Warwick there are a few small towns but nothing on plugshare. I will be visiting Toowoomba in about a months time and I am willing to stop at these small towns between Toowoomba and Warwick and talk to the locals about EV cars and charging, however i was wondering if you had any ideas how to approach them about this concept,
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by praxidice »

I have arrangements with the odd pub, basically I buy a meal and a beer or two in exchange for access to a socket, however when I've asked if they would like more of the same kind of business they are generally cool on the idea. One publican said he didn't want to encourage Tesla types who would probably use so much power it would cause more trouble than enough. Note this was an ancient pub with ancient wiring so I can quite understand his concern..
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jonescg
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by jonescg »

I think energy literacy is in need of improvement but its also true some places will get exploited by shameless drivers.
Allora and Clifton are nice towns, but Warwick to Toowoomba is only 80 km so stopping isn't necessary most of the time. I grew up in Warwick myself. Great to see it's got a DCFC and a solar farm now 🙂.
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Bryce
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Bryce »

My tuppence worth is that borrowing a power point will go the way of the dinosaur once the DCFC network becomes fully established. (And people get used to charging at home before they leave - just as they have got used to charging their mobile phone overnight ... thinking of which, I forgot: plugging it into the computer now ;-) )

Borrowing a power point will become the equivalent of needing a can of petrol from the local Automobile Association. A necessary backstop, but rarely used. Can fully understand businesses being wary of lending power points that are not designed to be used for EV charging: the new Wiring Rules requirements for power points used for EV charging are quite different to what is done for a normal power point circuit.

If businesses and councils want to install the odd 3.6 or 7kW EVSE to encourage EV loiterers to the local business area - that is quite different, and will be part of the new charging paradigm and a business growth opportunity to exploit.

In the meantime - we are in the equivalent era before petrol pumps (i.e. prior to 1920) when 2 gallon tins of petrol were bought from the local chemist or hardware ...

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Bryce
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clayton4115
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by clayton4115 »

yeah good points, it would be good to get businesses in rural towns to get 7kwh EVSE's installed I know JAX are doing i but they do not have many stores in country locations.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by clayton4115 »

jonescg wrote: Sat, 07 Nov 2020, 21:41 I think energy literacy is in need of improvement but its also true some places will get exploited by shameless drivers.
Allora and Clifton are nice towns, but Warwick to Toowoomba is only 80 km so stopping isn't necessary most of the time. I grew up in Warwick myself. Great to see it's got a DCFC and a solar farm now 🙂.
Warwick to Goondiwindi is 200kms and no charger in sight.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Bryce »

200km a worry? I've got a Kona. That's not even 50% for me! 😆
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clayton4115
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

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Bryce wrote: Sun, 08 Nov 2020, 12:28 200km a worry? I've got a Kona. That's not even 50% for me! 😆
LOL it is for me in my 28kw Ioniq.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Rusdy »

I need DCFC every 80km due to my dismal 13kWh usable capacity :cry:

My definition of usable capacity:
  • Between Very Low Battery Warning (Leaf-speak) and 80% charge, as anything beyond 80% charge is waaaay to slow (again, leaf-speak).
  • 100kph travel (that's 16kWh/100km for me) :cry:
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

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I know this has drifted a bit from the original question, but after reading some of the suggestions about 3.6/7kW AC chargers, I thought - this is about enabling older Leafs to make some of the longer legs between fast chargers? Look at Electric Highway Tasmania's experience: While they initially are installing 50 kW DC fast chargers with a maximum gap of 150 km - they're also going to start installing 25 kW DC fast chargers at the mid way points of these largest gaps.

The prompt for this was when The Good Car Company starting importing and selling 24/30 kWh Leafs in Hobart. I see Leafs here all the time now - probably more often than any other EV model. But of course they can't make the 150 km legs.

Hence the 25 kW DC fast chargers. The benefits:
  • They don't need expensive grid upgrades (I imagine the supply is the same as a 22 kW 3-phase socket)
  • The units are much cheaper than a 50 kW
  • They have Chademo and CCS2, just like the 50 kW ones - consistent interface for new owners
  • All cars can make the most of the full rate (unlike a 22kW AC where most cars will do <7 kW and old Leafs will only do 3.3 kW)
  • Their slower speed isn't an issue since all the Kona and Model 3 drivers are going to drive right past
  • They serve as a good backup for a mid/long range EV in case one of the other sites is down or busy
  • They bring visibility of EVs to the local community and may be more receptive to a 50 kW charger in the future when demand necessitates it
A 25 kW DC charger isn't an alternative to a 50+ kW fast charging network - but it's a good complementary option if a driver just needs a bit of a topup to make the next stop. Remember, people bought Leafs knowing they were primarily a city/short-range car. The fact that all parts of the state will soon be accessible to them is a bonus!
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

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Chuq wrote: Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 16:38 I know this has drifted a bit from the original question, but after reading some of the suggestions about 3.6/7kW AC chargers, I thought - this is about enabling older Leafs to make some of the longer legs between fast chargers? Look at Electric Highway Tasmania's experience: While they initially are installing 50 kW DC fast chargers with a maximum gap of 150 km - they're also going to start installing 25 kW DC fast chargers at the mid way points of these largest gaps.

The prompt for this was when The Good Car Company starting importing and selling 24/30 kWh Leafs in Hobart. I see Leafs here all the time now - probably more often than any other EV model. But of course they can't make the 150 km legs.

Hence the 25 kW DC fast chargers. The benefits:
  • They don't need expensive grid upgrades (I imagine the supply is the same as a 22 kW 3-phase socket)
  • The units are much cheaper than a 50 kW
  • They have Chademo and CCS2, just like the 50 kW ones - consistent interface for new owners
  • All cars can make the most of the full rate (unlike a 22kW AC where most cars will do <7 kW and old Leafs will only do 3.3 kW)
  • Their slower speed isn't an issue since all the Kona and Model 3 drivers are going to drive right past
  • They serve as a good backup for a mid/long range EV in case one of the other sites is down or busy
  • They bring visibility of EVs to the local community and may be more receptive to a 50 kW charger in the future when demand necessitates it
A 25 kW DC charger isn't an alternative to a 50+ kW fast charging network - but it's a good complementary option if a driver just needs a bit of a topup to make the next stop. Remember, people bought Leafs knowing they were primarily a city/short-range car. The fact that all parts of the state will soon be accessible to them is a bonus!
Wow those 25kW DC fast chargers would be an excellent solution for outback QLD as well as QLd is so huge they can be placed around 150kms from major towns.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

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clayton4115 wrote: Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 16:55 Wow those 25kW DC fast chargers would be an excellent solution for outback QLD as well as QLd is so huge they can be placed around 150kms from major towns.
Well, not really.. you want the main backbone of the route to be 50 kW at least, some may argue even faster. You wouldn't drive from Toowoomba to Charleville if all the towns had 25 kW chargers, it would be tiring. Enthusiasts would do it but the aim is to be able to mostly travel at much the same rate as you would with a petrol car. You couldn't in all honesty claim that, if they were all 25 kW. But if you look at some of the bigger gaps (like Roma to Morven) then you could potentially add a 25 kW at Mitchell, just as an example.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Bryce »

Agree 25kW DC chargers as small town 'top-up' sites would be both handy and supportive. They would be useful to provide confidence to EV drivers that they can easily make it to a major fast-charge site without being unduly delayed by doing a 10 - 15 min top-up (giving you, in rough numbers, a 35 - 50km boost). Would also make a great community resource for local towns that would not cost the earth to buy or install. Also agree they would not be at all useful on the major routes where charging times of 20 - 30 min max are needed. (= the ideal time for a rest break after 2 - 3hrs driving)
On the other hand - 50kW chargers within a few years will likely be seen as dinosaurs as EVs pass the 150 to 250 and on to 350kW charging rates. 50kW will at least remain a useful backstop/overflow charger rate at major highway charging sites. Most likely they will also become the only ones sporting CHAdeMO plugs as CHAdeMO phases out. (Given the remaining new CHAdeMO car here has only a 40 - 50kW charging rate, and older ones even less).

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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by praxidice »

According to a few enquiries I've made, 25kw DCFCs aren't cheaper than 50kw DCFCs, in fact they appear to be more expensive. As for impact on the electricity network, there is reason for concern if 50kw load is too much. Didn't we recently get slugged with billions for gold-plating everything ?
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Bryce »

Re DC fast charger prices - depends on which company you ask. There are some 'reasonably' priced 11 and 22kW DC chargers around. (Certainly cheaper than a 50kW one, although not half the price).
Re 'gold plating' - that depends on how far you go from a city. Eastern Gippsland (in Vic) for instance is poorly served for supply capacity. (I think some of that 'gold' might have slipped into a few pockets ... ;-) )
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by 4Springs »

AEVA developed a series of brochures some years ago to help you approach businesses. This one is a nice introduction, and includes a bit on Plugshare: https://aeva.asn.au/files/146/.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by praxidice »

Bryce wrote: Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 06:39 Re DC fast charger prices - depends on which company you ask. There are some 'reasonably' priced 11 and 22kW DC chargers around. (Certainly cheaper than a 50kW one, although not half the price).
Re 'gold plating' - that depends on how far you go from a city. Eastern Gippsland (in Vic) for instance is poorly served for supply capacity. (I think some of that 'gold' might have slipped into a few pockets ... ;-) )
Cheers
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I've checked out a few different DCFCs and without exception my impression was they are grossly overpriced, apart from portable Setec units that are reasonably cost-effective if purchased directly from the manufacturer rather than from a local agent who adds on a 50% surcharge. FWIW I'll be selling my 10kw Setec either alone or with the U68 MiniCab as there isn't much to be gained given that my MG eZS should arrive within a couple of months. This particular Setec was specially configured at the factory to accept both single phase and three phase input, wheres most will only accept one of the other. Dunno if I'll get a 20kw Setec .... still weighing up the idea.
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Re: getting small business to share their powerpoints

Post by Bryce »

Yeah, I was being circumspect re the overall pricing of DC chargers ... ;-)

Re exorbitant: the very worst example is the new lightweight German portable 22kW DC EVSE. It's over $28k landed, before adding GST etc!!! Setec is a much more reasonably priced unit. (And easily adaptable to mounting in a fixed, sheltered, location :-) )

Re 'weighing up the idea' of a Setec 20kW unit - depends on how strong the rear springs are in your MG ZS. ;-)
(Setec is a solid and reliable unit, but it is bloody heavy and bulky!)

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