Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by EmpowerRepower » Sat, 02 May 2015, 20:14

For the Queenslanders on the list, some newly discovered info about off-peak rates and EVs: last week, I attended a Solar Citizens event, and one of the speakers was "energy customer advocate and power systems engineer Mike Swanston", who formerly worked for Energex, and is now becoming a consultant. I spoke to him briefly after the talk, and he told me that a change had come through, allowing for a powerpoint in your carport/garage for an EV to be connected to the Super-Off-Peak tariff, and he told me the doc name. He left Energex 5 weeks ago.

I had my new powerpoint put in about 8 weeks ago, but was told that I'd need a hard-wired EVSE to access the cheaper rates. I couldn't justify the extra cost, so I went for a powerpoint.

I've found a FAQ about it, for anyone on the list who might be working out how to set-up for an EV - there is a screenshot below.

If I'd known about this sooner, I would have had two wires and two powerpoints put in at the same time, one for off-peak, and the other for the rest of the time.

The running costs for the car will drop substantially if I can change tariffs, from 28c per kWh to 13c per kWh. I need to ring Energex for more info.



off-peak_rules_EV_Energex_screen_shot.pdf
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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 03 May 2015, 16:08

That sure will cut the running costs of EV's in 1/2 for people on the grid. I'm assuming you would have to get a new extra meter installed to access the Super-Off-Peak tariff. Most people who have of peek usually just have T33 to run SHW and pool pumps.

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by weber » Mon, 04 May 2015, 06:01

I note that the regulations for tariff 31 say that tariff 31 is "not applicable ... if provision has been made to supply such apparatus ... under a different tariff during the restricted period".
See page 558 (PDF page 4) of the 18-July-2014 gazette here.
http://www.qca.org.au/getattachment/2cf ... -2014.aspx

If you think about it, if you can just swap it to an uncontrolled outlet, it completely eliminates the benefit to the network of being able to turn it off (or on) whenever they want.

I was planning to switch to Tariff 12 (time of use) soon, because I expect that the daily service fee for Tariff 11 will be increased to be the same as for Tariff 12 in July 2015. Tariff 12 gives a cheap off-peak rate for _all_ consumption that occurs between 10 pm and 7 am. No control relays or dedicated circuits are required and there's no 15 amp single socket limitation. But the off-peak rate on T12 is not as low as T31. Currently they are 19.2 c/kWh and 12.9 c/kWh (33% cheaper) respectively.

The T12 rate is actually lower than the T11 rate for all consumption outside of 4 pm to 8 pm weekdays (peak time). But the "shoulder" rate is only about 18% lower than T11, while the off-peak rate (between 10 pm and 7 am) is about 31% lower than T11.

I think I'll wait and see what rates and regulations actually come out in the July-2015 gazette.

Existing EM1000 (electronic) meters can be reprogrammed to function as time-of-use (ToU) meters. You don't need a smart meter.
Last edited by weber on Sun, 03 May 2015, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by coulomb » Mon, 04 May 2015, 13:30

weber wrote: ... regulations for tariff 31 say that tariff 31 is "not applicable ... if provision has been made to supply such apparatus ... under a different tariff during the restricted period". ...
I think I'll wait and see what rates and regulations actually come out in the July-2015 gazette.
I think that this regulation would have to disappear, or there would have to be an exception for the EV ruling that overrides that regulation, otherwise the EV ruling would be completely ineffective. Any EV that can be plugged into a GPO has provision to supply the EV under a different tariff, all the time. So the only way you could use your special EV-only outlet is if it was the only socket in the house!

Oh but wait. Most EVs have a 15-amp plug. Many houses have no 15-amp outlets. Maybe this only discriminates against people with 15-amp outlets? I really don't think that this is the intention, but if they overlook this problem, many people could be caught out. It also means that you can't have any way of paying extra to charge your EV from home other than at night, say you had a long trip in the morning and wanted to do another long trip in the evening, so you needed to charge in the middle of the day. That might happen only a few times a year, but it would be really annoying if you weren't technically allowed to do it. This situation happens to be basically unenforceable, so people would just plug in to a GPO anyway, and they would not be violating the spirit of the law (just the letter of the law).
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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 04 May 2015, 13:34

"Existing EM1000 (electronic) meters can be reprogrammed to function as time-of-use (ToU) meters. You don't need a smart meter."

That makes it more attractive.

Are you thinking of ways to take advantage of the lower tariffs through load shifting with battery's.?

Has it reach the point where it's economically viable? if so are the saving high enough to warrant the loss of convenience vs the savings?

Its that connection fee throws a spanner in the works vs just going off grid though.

I think there will be a shift in what people want to do once all the contracts run out on grid connected PV systems that were connected up under the high feed in tariffs.

I will say if you do a lot of driving selecting a tariff that favors your EV vs your house loads would most likely work out best. I know I often consume way more KWH's each day from EV charging than I do powering my other house loads.

Kurt



Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 04 May 2015, 03:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by coulomb » Mon, 04 May 2015, 13:37

weber wrote: ... regulations for tariff 31 say that tariff 31 is "not applicable ... if provision has been made to supply such apparatus ... under a different tariff during the restricted period". ...
I think I'll wait and see what rates and regulations actually come out in the July-2015 gazette.
I think that this regulation would have to disappear, or there would have to be an exception for the EV ruling that overrides that regulation, otherwise the EV ruling would be completely ineffective. Any EV that can be plugged into a GPO has provision to supply the EV under a different tariff, all the time. So the only way you could use your special EV-only outlet is if it was the only socket in the house!

Oh but wait. Most EVs have a 15-amp plug. Many houses have no 15-amp outlets. Maybe this only discriminates against people with 15-amp outlets? I really don't think that this is the intention, but if they overlook this problem, many people could be caught out. It also means that you can't have any way of paying extra to charge your EV from home other than at night, say you had a long trip in the morning and wanted to do another long trip in the evening, so you needed to charge in the middle of the day. That might happen only a few times a year, but it would be really annoying if you weren't technically allowed to do it. This situation happens to be basically unenforceable, so people would just plug in to a GPO anyway, and they would not be violating the spirit of the law (just the letter of the law).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 04 May 2015, 13:48

"Existing EM1000 (electronic) meters can be reprogrammed to function as time-of-use (ToU) meters. You don't need a smart meter."

That makes it more attractive.

Are you thinking of ways to take advantage of the lower tariffs through load shifting with battery's.?

Has it reach the point where it's economically viable? if so are the saving high enough to warrant the loss of convenience vs the savings?

It's that connection fee that throws a spanner in the works vs just going off grid though.

I think there will be a shift in what people want to do once all the contracts run out on grid connected PV systems that were connected up under the high feed in tariffs.

I will say if you do a lot of driving selecting a tariff that favors your EV vs your house loads would most likely work out best. I know I often consume way more KWH's each day from EV charging than I do powering my other house loads.

Kurt



Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 04 May 2015, 03:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by EmpowerRepower » Mon, 04 May 2015, 19:19

Weber wrote:If you think about it, if you can just swap it to an uncontrolled outlet, it completely eliminates the benefit to the network of being able to turn it off (or on) whenever they want.

I was planning to switch to Tariff 12 (time of use) soon, because I expect that the daily service fee for Tariff 11 will be increased to be the same as for Tariff 12 in July 2015. Tariff 12 gives a cheap off-peak rate for _all_ consumption that occurs between 10 pm and 7 am. No control relays or dedicated circuits are required and there's no 15 amp single socket limitation. But the off-peak rate on T12 is not as low as T31. Currently they are 19.2 c/kWh and 12.9 c/kWh (33% cheaper) respectively.


I think I'll wait and see what rates and regulations actually come out in the July-2015 gazette.

I think the network still gets a benefit by offering a cheap tariff on power points for getting EVs to charge late at night, by reducing strain on the grid, and giving EVers motivation to charge at that time. The great majority of my charging is after midnight, but I do need to be able to plug in for an hour here or there at other times. I think that the uptake of EVs would be affected if people couldn't recharge when they needed to. On the other hand, getting EV recharging working in a grid-friendly way depends on encouraging people to charge late at night, rather than ad to peak demand.

With the new Qld Govt, and an electricity review just commissioned, the deregulation scheduled for July 2015 is now on hold, so anything could happen, and your wait-and-see approach sounds wise. I don't find the TOU tariffs under tariff 12 very appealing, with peak rates between 4-8pm. With a family of five, there isn't much I can do to cut use during that time that I'm not already doing.

[ Edit Coulomb: fixed quoting for ease of reading ]
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 04 May 2015, 09:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by g4qber » Fri, 08 Jan 2016, 21:38

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Qld: off-peak now available for EV from powerpoint

Post by coulomb » Sat, 09 Jan 2016, 00:51

I found the PS1 rate interesting: Power Shift tariff. It seems to be a little cheaper all round, including a lower daily fee, but the cheapness is compressed into smaller hours (9 vs 10), and the high rate is for longer (2-8 pm). So if you have everything on a battery inverter and you only need to recharge infrequently after a poor solar day or two, this might be worthwhile.

I'm retaining an electric stove/oven and large (80 amp start surge) ducted air conditioner, both of which will be mainly used in peak time, so staying with flat rate would be best for me, I believe.

Does anyone know if there is an equivalent tariff in other states?
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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