Charging Network Australia -Help needed

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jonescg
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Post by jonescg »

The UK is rolling out more fast chargers than you can point a ChaDeMo plug at:

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/northumb ... -chargers/
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offgridQLD
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Post by offgridQLD »

When you think about it the distances between towns over there are very short in comparison to Australia. They have a good public transport. Yet they are still getting the infrastructure for EV's.

Expensive fuel and pollution thats the driving factor, or just a different attitude?

Kurt

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Post by Johny »

offgridQLD wrote: Expensive fuel and pollution thats the driving factor, or just a different attitude?
Neither - it just that Robert Llewellyn lives there Image

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Post by Troglodyte »

offgridQLD wrote: just a different attitude? Kurt


Australia has long tended to ape the yanks in many ways and especially the petrol-head bit. Just try to imagine the typical Logan Bogan driving an EV, or for that matter one of the V8 Supercar tragics or urban-assault freaks. I've long hoped the price of dinosaur juice would go into orbit so that knuckledraggers whose choice of transport is a V8 Landcruiser / F250 / similar behemoth have no option but to buy a more sensible vehicle.

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Post by jonescg »

In Barcelona the cost of fuel was roughly AUD$2.15 a litre. Not many EVs there.
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Post by Troglodyte »

jonescg wrote: In Barcelona the cost of fuel was roughly AUD$2.15 a litre. Not many EVs there.


Aren't they all broke in Spain ?? Poor sods probably can't afford anything more than a 2CV & even then they probably run them on grappa

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Post by Gabz »

Troglodyte wrote:
offgridQLD wrote: just a different attitude? Kurt


Australia has long tended to ape the yanks in many ways and especially the petrol-head bit.

stop trying to blame the yanks, They are a head of us with roughly
0.31 Evs / 1000 people and Australia is 0.03 EVs/1000 people.

and about 20 000 charging points to our 200

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Post by offgridQLD »

All interesting,
                 Why is the situation so bad in Australia. Perhaps it's just the price point of a OEM ev in Australia then.

We don't get any rebates like they do in the US (Not that I personally like rebates anyhow) Then there is the list price for Australia thats a lot more to start with.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 03 Apr 2014, 08:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny »

Troglodyte wrote:Aren't they all broke in Spain ?? Poor sods probably can't afford anything more than a 2CV & even then they probably run them on grappa
Curiously Spain is a leader in renewable energy and EVs are selling well there. Unfortunately for Peskanov (a forum contributor in Spain) the Spanish authorities make it very difficult for DIY EVs though.

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Post by jonescg »

Well they are probably still selling more EVs in Spain than in Australia, but their figures are nothing like the UK, France, Netherlands, Denmark or Norway.

Subsidies work. They are not the most efficient mechanism, nor are they the fairest use of public money, but goddamn they work.
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Post by Troglodyte »

I for one would be more likely to buy a vehicle with sticker price somewhat akin to the yankee one than the padded one we get in Australia. Whether or not that involves a subsidy is immaterial to me, I'll happily accept any handout I can get. After all the bloodsucking parasites in Canberra & elsewhere have no qualms about taking every red cent they can extract from the sheeple, so why should I refuse anything I can get from the system ??

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Post by offgridQLD »

That price is never going to happen in Australia we will always pay significantly more than the US when it comes to cars ( same for most things).

As for the rebates. I pay enough tax each year as it is. So I don't want to support Another handout.

If people don't want to stick there neck out for a ev then its there loss


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Post by Troglodyte »

offgridQLD wrote:
As for the rebates. I pay enough tax each year as it is. So I don't want to support Another handout.Kurt


Given the iniquitous / duplicitous nature of politics generally, what our tax contributions go toward, and what we want them to go toward, aren't necessarily related. Personally I'd love to see political positions unpaid / voluntary, governors abolished, has-been parasites evicted from the gravy train & mandatory extermination of any politician who intentionally misleads the sheeple. In the meantime I'm only too happy to take everything I can.

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Post by Gabz »

offgridQLD wrote: As for the rebates. I pay enough tax each year as it is. So I don't want to support Another handout.

it's not that hard to spin rebates as a cost saving exercise for countries with poor air quality and public health systems we know: diesel fumes are linked to cancer, heart disease. petrol cars produce carbon monoxide. (and if you really don't believe the fumes are bad for your health hose from tail pipe to your lungs)

California where EVs in the USA really started. well before EVs became popular required ICE cars to be emission tested every year with rego.

Australia unlike Europe or USA or China doesn't have a visible air pollution problem, we just have the invisible type high rate of asthma in particular areas ie coal mines etc..
Last edited by Gabz on Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 08:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD »

I totally agree with you that diesel and petrol cars are unhealthy. Particularly in Australia, Older cars with no catalytic converters running on unleaded fuel, diesels without particle filters, tired old engines burning oil you name it we have it on our streets unchecked. The fact you can still purchase 2 stroke engines in Au is not a good thing.

I would be happy if they introduced yearly smog testing on all cars.

We do have visible air pollution in Australia (just go to the hills and look down on any of our capital cities you can see it. Granted it's not the soup like blanket of death, can't see the sun I have experienced in china but it's there.

I just feel that rebates are not the long term answer to EV's becoming successful in Australia. Even at the list price EV's are not that expensive. Your just purchasing your fuel up front for the next 8 - 10 years in the form of a battery. End result about the same cost.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jonescg »

I don't think anyone would consider a rebate to be a long term solution, but like the PV rebates, they did their job and can now begin to be wound back.

Personally I think the better option for subsidisation would be as a tax deduction. There's less chance of a shonky operator trying to milk the system, and it's all proportional to how much tax you've already paid. If you don't pay much tax, you get less rebate.

However in my view, the best option in terms of value for money would be to fund a seed network of fast chargers. The cost to other tax payers is minuscule, while it helps get those who are sitting on the fence to jump in. It might even cause folks like AC motor to sell his ICE all together :)
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Post by Troglodyte »

jonescg wrote: Personally I think the better option for subsidisation would be as a tax deduction. There's less chance of a shonky operator trying to milk the system, )


Thats certainly a problem in many areas however I don't believe it would necessarily prove to to be so with EVs where the market perception of wildly excessive pricing has probably been the main impediment to sales. Even many new car salespersons I've spoken to admit as much, and truth is the very last thing one expects from that tribe.
jonescg wrote: it's all proportional to how much tax you've already paid. If you don't pay much tax, you get less rebate.

Apart from a certain ISP owner who was reportedly the first in this country to buy a Tesla Roadster, I dunno that too many high tax bracket types would be in the market for EVs. I'm not currently in a high tax category due to perfectly legitimate business deductions so tax concessions wouldn't do anything to increase attractiveness of an EV. That said, my situation is anything but 'normal'

jonescg wrote: However in my view, the best option in terms of value for money would be to fund a seed network of fast chargers. The cost to other tax payers is minuscule, while it helps get those who are sitting on the fence to jump in. It might even cause folks like AC motor to sell his ICE all together :)


Unfortunately 'best options' are rarely the choice of the clowns we elect. As we've seen, they are far more likely to be attracted to schemes that benefit their big business cronies than those they ostensibly represent. Furthermore a scheme that got a significant number of sheeple into EVs would necessarily reduce the income of various GOCs & party contributors, resulting in a whole raft of taxes & other charges. One of the major advantages of EVs at present is that they tend to fly under the radar as far as government revenue-raising enterprises are concerned & it would be a shame to lose that prematurely.

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Post by offgridQLD »

"Furthermore a scheme that got a significant number of sheeple into EVs would necessarily reduce the income of various GOCs & party contributors, resulting in a whole raft of taxes & other charges. One of the major advantages of EVs at present is that they tend to fly under the radar as far as government revenue-raising enterprises are concerned & it would be a shame to lose that prematurely."

This is something I fear to. At the moment I'm happy with things the way they are flying under the radar.What would happen if tomorrow everyone was driving a ev. That's a lot of lost revenue that they rely on now to just keep there head above water.

Same reason why I didn't acept any rebate on water tanks. I dotn't want my tanks on a register so I can be charged for the water I colect myself or forced into paying for 1\2 yearly water quality inspections at some silly rate.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Troglodyte »

offgridQLD wrote:Same reason why I didn't acept any rebate on water tanks. I dotn't want my tanks on a register so I can be charged for the water I colect myself or forced into paying for 1\2 yearly water quality inspections at some silly rate.

Kurt


I believe the wicked Witch of the North AKA GoAnna the Blight enacted legislation to prevent tank owners being charged for water provided by the Bloke Upstairs, although given the demonstrated avarice of General Disaster, there is no guarantee that despicable little grub wouldn't change the law if there was a profit in doing so. I actually got the tank rebate twice due to bureaucratic inanity but a couple of years later the clowns created a situation whereby they had no option but to buy the property at a price I couldn't refuse. One doesn't get many opportunities to get the upper hand on bureaucrazies, but they are very sweet on the rare occasions they occur.    

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Post by jonescg »

http://chargedevs.com/newswire/nissan-o ... g-network/

Another example of some amazing electric vehicle support roll-outs in (insert country other than OZ here)...
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Post by Troglodyte »

I've been following up with electrical engineering types of my acquaintance regarding home-grown DC chargers. Seems I may in the forseeable future be able to get my hands on some 415v rectifers although the issue of voltage choppers has yet to be resolved. I note also the posting from someone or other re DC connectors so it looks like it might actually be possible to create a DC charger without involving a mortgage. I'm also looking at possible locations around south east Queensland, have possible 24 x 7 sites on commercial / industrial property (hence no major issues with local authorities) at Mudgeeraba, Canungra, Beaudesert, Underwood, Brendale and maybe even Gympie, Byron Bay & Ballina. One issue about which I haven't the foggiest is how to implement a foolproof metering system so that the nice folk who provide locations aren't at any risk of getting slugged with a ginormous electricity bill. Can anyone shed some light on this stuff ??

A bit off topic but at least partly relevant. My present thoughts are that a used Leaf would best suit my needs at the kind of money I prefer to allocate, consequently I'm keeping my eyes on a few options that way. Most likely prospect is the three fleets of which I'm aware and which are expected to place some of their vehicles on the market within the next couple of years. A 3kw generator will easily fit in the back of a Leaf, in fact two would fit in the space available, which makes top-ups a way to stretch the usable range. To date I haven't checked exactly how much space there is for a generator in a Mitsubishi but those things aren't top of my list due to size / comfort / used price being only slightly less than I expect to pay for a Leaf.
Last edited by Troglodyte on Sat, 12 Apr 2014, 06:31, edited 1 time in total.

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