Old EV got 340 km on 1 charge [once]

Post by **IVI** » Wed, 16 Jan 2013, 22:33

A quick excerpt from Wikipedia reminds us that
some -early- EV's good range:

"Production of the electric automobile, powered by a rechargeable lead acid battery, began in 1907. For an additional $600.00, an Edison nickel-iron battery was available from 1911 to 1916. The cars were advertised as reliably getting 80 miles (130 km) between battery recharging, although in one test a Detroit Electric ran 211.3 miles (340.1 km) on a single charge. Top speed was only about 20 miles per hour (32 km/h), but this was considered adequate for driving within city or town limits at the time."

Anyone doing better now?

Post by **Tritium_James** » Wed, 16 Jan 2013, 23:50

Power consumption goes up approximately proportional to the square of speed. So for a modern example, EPA testing on the Nissan Leaf shows 110km range on the 90km/h highway test cycle. Cruising steadily at 1/3rd this speed (~20mph, same as the Edison car) would use 1/9th the power, so the range would be almost 1000km.

A quick look at the US Inflation Calculator shows $600 in 1913 (as far back as it goes) is worth $14k these days... not too shabby for an EV battery, although it's a pretty small one!

Post by **acmotor** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 02:17

Can't quite agree there. (though mum's gofer go 40km at 8kmph on SLAs)

Just simply considering wind resistance (main speed factor) will not provide realistic range estimate.
EPA Leaf range at steady (no traffic) 61kmph is 222km. Even at half that speed I doubt it would go 300km but hope for other road users sake, nobody tries ! Perhaps there is a number out there.

It does comment that battery technology has advanced in different ways.
Batteries are good for hundreds of thousands of km now and maybe 10 years life (many thousands of cycles). Recharge time can be tens of minutes and recharge efficiency nearly 100%. EVs can also suffer a major crash without battery pack rupture. I doubt the lead acids in 1910 were even a shade on any of that.

Post by **acmotor** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 06:11

Another example of range.... (Simon Hackett)
'The world distance record of 501 km (311 mi) for a production electric car on a single charge was set by a Tesla Roadster on October 27, 2009, during the Global Green Challenge in outback Australia, in which it averaged a speed of 25 mph (40 km/h)'

The Tesla has a city EPA range of something like 392km.
On that basis we could maybe estimate Leaf range at 25mph at around 501/392 x 222 = 283km

One thing that this does tell us is that even after 100 years it still takes much the same amount of energy to shift a given mass on wheels from one place to another. So keep the mass down and the aerodynamics up !

Post by **Tritium_James** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 17:12

Yes, reading it again I wasn't very clear - there's no way a Leaf will go 1000km!

But put a Leaf pack in that 1907 vehicle and it probably would go that far. It's hard to beat light weight, solid tyres, no power anything, no accessories, and cruising at 10mph to give decent efficiency

Post by **jonescg** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 17:15

I don't care what the efficiency ends up being, but after our furnace drive to Walpole for New Years, I'm putting air-con into the CRX when I convert it!!

Post by **acmotor** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 17:52

Yes TJ, to be fair, the point raised by IVI was perhaps more that the Detriot was rather energy efficient, as electric transport is by nature.
I did consider buying a Detroit that came up recently and fitting a modern battery pack. But it wouldn't be allowed on the freeway !

A comment on aircond....

I would rate accessories in this order in terms of reducing the range of my iMiEV.
1) heater ... it is just a 'kettle' in the iMiEV i.e. electric hot water heater. I wonder why the aircond was not run in reverse cycle ? OK, that may work until outside temp goes below zero (or evaporator freezes) so for a world vehicle where operating temp is required to go down to at least -20C then the kettle is the best option. (there is no heat to use from emotor/controller/battery.)
Heater uses some 5kW flat out so is very noticeable on a 16kWh pack. I go for a jumper.
Range reduction 20%

2) Lights (night driving), in particular high beam. This should all add up to well less than 1kW but seems to use up to 1kWh in a 100km trip. Maybe the music drains a lot of power ? Photons fired forward slow vehicle ?
Range reduction 5%

3) Aircond. This is a welcome observation given the temperatures lately.
The aircond seems to use a few kW flat out but never runs continuously and averages less than 1kWh over a 100km trip on a hot day. The 'full on' button cools the vehicle in minutes from standing in the sun on a 42C day. You need to revert to temp control before thermal shock sets in.
It probably helps that it is a small white vehicle and the mitsubishi inverter aircond is clearly fine tuned for the task. Well done mitsi.
Range reduction <5% probably more with slow driving as the operating time adds up.

The aircond is also plumbed by design to cool the battery pack if required. This is seemless to the user so I can't say it has happened yet. Probably only cuts in on a DC fast charge ? and then is running off charger anyway.

Post by **Tritium_James** » Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 19:24

Yes, the aircon kicks in when fast charging an iMiEV.

You're right on the 'kettle', it's so the heating can still work in north america etc. I was reading something interesting about it the other day actually, they reckon adding heated seats and heated steering wheel (as they do in the US) makes a pretty big difference in how much energy people use in the cabin air heating.

Post by **acmotor** » Fri, 18 Jan 2013, 01:25

Oz iMiEV has the heated seat. Never used it. Will try next winter.
Heated steering wheel... wow... I guess in Oz we don't know what cold is.

Post by **PlanB** » Sat, 19 Jan 2013, 02:47

Dreamliners seem to be getting 340 from their lithium packs, except that it's Celsius not km!

Post by **acmotor** » Sat, 19 Jan 2013, 04:43

Actually it would be interesting to find out what the problem is with the dreamliner lithium battery.
Is it battery (cell) volatge management, ambient temperatures or ambient pressure etc.
It does of course violate IATA dangerous goods ruling on lithium batteries over 100Wh being carried on a plane.

Post by **PlanB** » Thu, 24 Jan 2013, 21:29

When ever I get on this site a great sense of history washes over me.

Post by **Tritium_James** » Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 14:31

That 1000 miles wasn't in one charge!

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 5B808DF1D3

The 2.5hp motor would have kept the speeds low and the efficiency high, too

Post by **g4qber** » Sun, 10 Mar 2013, 18:05

220km in imiev
a) 50km/h
b) flat road
c) ac off
d) 40 PSI
e) B mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqSLNX3WlHY

Post by **g4qber** » Sun, 10 Mar 2013, 18:08

100 miles in leaf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trwdLKPhUH0