a few questions...

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nazar
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a few questions...

Post by nazar » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 04:47

gudday there, i did some research a while a go, but am now ready to buy/build a EV - but it will depend a little about cost effectiveness/price..

i converted a pushbike to Electric (using lifepo4 battery) - the battery cost more than the rest of the kit :D

what i need/require
an EV that will hold 2 adults and 2 children, does at least 60Km on one charge (120Km would be ideal)

1)am i being unrealistic?? with what i want??

2)came across this site while doing my initial research.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php
the reason i was interested in this was because of the engine 'Siamese 9' Dual armature series-wound.
The idea being that i could use a direct drive system (doing away with the gear box) and the computer system changes the configuration for power at high speed driving.

is this a good idea?? or would a gearbox be better??

3)just a rough guess - how much would a conversion cost if i did it myself/got someone else to do it

spending 50K plus on a new EV (like the Volt) is not an option. (and i personally can't see the price hike from the US to Au.



any help appreciated

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jonescg
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a few questions...

Post by jonescg » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 05:01

Hi nazar,

Nothing is unrealistic at this stage! If you said you wanted to do it for $10,000, then I'd say you were being unrealistic. As you have considered DC, then you are certainly going to be in the more affordable realm.

A 4 seater sedan is certainly doable. I would suggest you'd need at least 20 kWh of batteries to cover 120 km round trips, especially since this conversion will be a bit heavier than a two-seater.

Garden variety lithium batteries are in the order of $700 per kWh, but their volumetric energy density lets you down. It will be tough to find room for them all without losing boot space. Two DC motors fused together limits you to a rear wheel drive car, and probably with no gearbox. See Ian Hooper's conversion project (Zeva on this forum) for options.

You could well do a conversion for $30,000, provided the donor chassis was freely available.

Hope this helped!

Chris
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

nazar
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a few questions...

Post by nazar » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 05:39

jonescg wrote: Hi nazar,

Nothing is unrealistic at this stage! If you said you wanted to do it for $10,000, then I'd say you were being unrealistic. As you have considered DC, then you are certainly going to be in the more affordable realm.

A 4 seater sedan is certainly doable. I would suggest you'd need at least 20 kWh of batteries to cover 120 km round trips, especially since this conversion will be a bit heavier than a two-seater.

Garden variety lithium batteries are in the order of $700 per kWh, but their volumetric energy density lets you down. It will be tough to find room for them all without losing boot space. Two DC motors fused together limits you to a rear wheel drive car, and probably with no gearbox. See Ian Hooper's conversion project (Zeva on this forum) for options.

You could well do a conversion for $30,000, provided the donor chassis was freely available.

Hope this helped!

Chris


thanks, it helps quite a bit.
i was thinking about 25k but 30k is do-able. i could always do 60Km round trip, and add other batteries later.
maybe a duelcab ute would be a better idea, am really impressed with this sort of setup http://www.evpower.com.au/-PROJECTS-.html scroll down to the back of the two utes (really impressed)

ian hopper - viewtopic.php?keywords=zeva&title=ian-h ... 024#p38423
i have just realized how complicated it could be to do my own conversion - pitty, i really wanted to get most of it done myself - but i guess i will have to get someone else to do it :) (there are no EV's in my town - no experienced to question :D )

i take it lithiam for EV's is better than Lifepo4 (or another sort of battery)??

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jonescg
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a few questions...

Post by jonescg » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 05:50

You could possibly do it for $25,000 if you do as much of it yourself as you can. Utes are good, but they are only two seaters. If you want to move four people, you will need a sedan or station wagon. A dual cab ute will be a bit heavy, but they do have the benefit of a high GVM, so you can put a lot of batteries in there.

The conversion need not be too complicated. Ian's is somewhere in the middle of the scale of easy to complicated. Having other EV enthusiasts around to help is really important, so I strongly suggest getting to your nearest AEVA meeting and saying hello. We are always keen to help where we can.

Lithium is a general term. It really just means any battery chemistry which uses lithum. This includes Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) lithium cobalt (often called LiPo) and some of the later chemistries like NMC, which is really Li(NiMnCo)O2. Energy density increases (more kWh per kilogram) and usually volumetric energy density increases (more kWh per litre of space) as you go into these more complicated chemistries.

Whatever you do, don't start with lead. It will only disappoint and cost you more in the long run. If you want to just play around with old cells cause they are freely available, then go for it, but you won't be able to keep it up long term.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

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BigMouse
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Post by BigMouse » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 16:39

What town are you in? Small place? There are EV people scattered all around, even if they're not on here or you're not near a big city. I live in Wollongong and I know of at least 3 people near me with EV projects.

I would say a wagon would be your best bet. Check out evalbum and see what other people are converting, what they're using, and what sort of compromises they're making. It's a great source of inspiration.

$25-30k should be plenty!

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Richo
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Post by Richo » Fri, 19 Oct 2012, 20:37

You don't need 2 motors either.
There are plenty of eV's that are single motor direct drive.
That'll cut down on complexity and cost.

4wd's come in a dual cab - 5 seater.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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nazar
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a few questions...

Post by nazar » Sat, 20 Oct 2012, 17:19

Richo wrote: You don't need 2 motors either.
There are plenty of eV's that are single motor direct drive.
That'll cut down on complexity and cost.

4wd's come in a dual cab - 5 seater.


deleted - which is on the coast.
a 4wd would be great (because of where i live) but i find the maintenance on such vehicles to be expensive. the problem being that 4wd's are also heavy and incredibly un-aerodynamic.

deleted,,,,,,,, but he ownes a business and i assume he is very busy. i am going to catch up with him shortly (already been in contact)- although i have never seen an EV around here or Margs, i am hoping he knows a few ;)

ha ha, i havent even driven a EV yet, or been a passenger. but for my circumstances it makes financial/economic and environmental sense (and i love the idea of not hearing the noise of the engine :)    
Last edited by nazar on Tue, 23 Oct 2012, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

Faz
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a few questions...

Post by Faz » Sat, 20 Oct 2012, 18:56

jonescg wrote:
Garden variety lithium batteries are in the order of $700 pe kWh, but their volumetric energy density lets you down. It will be tough to find room for them all without losing boot space. Two DC motors fused together limits you to a rear wheel drive car, and probably with no gearbox. See Ian Hooper's conversion project (Zeva on this forum) for options.

I'm pretty sure large format LiFePO4 cost around $450 per kWh. Of course that isn't factoring in bms cost.
Last edited by Faz on Sat, 20 Oct 2012, 07:58, edited 1 time in total.

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jonescg
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a few questions...

Post by jonescg » Sat, 20 Oct 2012, 20:14

Oh yeah, I was including the BMS, copper links and the like.
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nazar
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a few questions...

Post by nazar » Sat, 20 Oct 2012, 21:54

wow, i figured the batteries would be on par with the rest of the car costs.

thanks guys really appreciate the help - i need to start putting a list together and find a car (with a blown engine).

thanks for pointing me in the right direction - will browse the forum

nazar
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a few questions...

Post by nazar » Mon, 22 Oct 2012, 20:35

just a observation - it might be beneficial in the "for sale" section to close threads once an item has been sold (or some other way to indicate it has been sold - before you open the thread)

also, only because i come from WA, it might be good to have a location for the item as well (before you open the thread)

just some thoughts - as i am going through doing some research at the moment :D

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jonescg
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a few questions...

Post by jonescg » Tue, 23 Oct 2012, 02:35

Another option is for everyone to update their locations in their user profiles. SW WA would suffice for those sensitive about identity theft.
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