My VicRoads Adventure

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
Post Reply
sid280
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed, 17 Nov 2010, 18:31
Real Name: Sid Evans
Location: Melbourne
MSN: sidevans@live.com.au

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by sid280 »

Hey All

I haven't posted much due to moving house and office, as well as Christmas and other holidays, but our EV Project is still going ahead, I sold my 2 tonne toyota tank and purchased a 1995 Suzuki Swift 2 door and have purchased some old bikes for E-Bike Conversions.

This week I kicked off communications with VicRoads regarding registration of E-Bikes as a Motorbike, as we all know (if not you should)

"If a vehicle has a power output of more than 200 watts, it is considered to be a motor vehicle so it must be registered to be driven on public roads."

The bike I want to build will have 2 x 750 watt motors and obviously well exceeds the 200 watt limit that VicRoads are enforcing, so my question to VicRoads is "What do I need to do, to register my pedal powered electric assisted bicycle with a motor that exceeds the 200 watt limit?"

After about an hour on hold, and speaking to 3 different staff members I found someone in Customer Service who was going to try and answer my question, to try and make things easy I suggested the "Recreational motorcycle registration" which would allow me to ride the E-Bike around state forests and other areas's that motorbike riders are allowed.

However - one of the regulations for the recreational rego, is "If a battery is fitted to the motorcycle, an integrated charging system, such as an alternator, is required." At this point I asked VicRoads how I should wire up an alternator to my electric motor to meet these regulations, fortunately the staff member I spoke to understood that this is impossible and acknowledged there is no actual category for pedal assist vehicles that exceed the 200 watt limit.

I was then told my questions and requests for information will be forwarded to the "Policies Department" of VicRoads, and I would receive a call back from a VicRoads Policy Specialist? or something like that. They gave me a reference number and logged the call into their computer system.

Well, as I suspected, VicRoads never called back - so today I called them again, waited on hold for about 15 minutes and spoke to someone, quoted my reference number, got transferred to someone else who informed me the Policies Department is in a meeting right now (3pm) and one of the members of this meeting is going to call me back. Yer right...

Even though VicRoads have yet to give me any answers or information, I believe that this is a small win for the E-Bike riders of Victoria since they have acknowledged there is a flaw in the system and a new class of vehicle out there, which needs to be addressed - and - I am going to call them every single day until I get my answers.

Sorry about the long post but I thought it was a good story to share here :)
My Longterm goal : 12 second EV Drag Car, I can drive to the track, and home.
gannet
Noobie
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed, 10 Sep 2008, 03:07
Real Name: Stephen Wootten
Location: Woden ACT

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by gannet »

well at least they do have rec rego. I understand that the Zero bikes were able to use this ( some now have ADR). The primitive states to the north don't have anything so useful Image
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by Adverse Effects »

in QLD you simply are not allowed to put more than 200watt on a pedal Vehicles whether you want to rego it or not
but you can buy one of thos pockit bikes and add indicators to it and you can rego it and drive it on the road and even on the freeway if it can do 90kmp/h+

how stupid is that

i have a friend with a partly crippled daughter and i built a trike for her to get around on (shop and back less than a block) she was brought home in a cop car and my mat was told the bike was not allowed out side the gate from now on

its a 750watt motor running at 24 volt and the trike has to be 60Kg with out the battery's and motor

ad the 2 flooded cells and motor i strugle to pick it up

200 watts would not even move it on a flat bit of cement
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Sat, 12 Feb 2011, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by T1 Terry »

This is from the "Independent Living" website relating to electric mobility vehicles
"In NSW, motorised wheelchairs that weigh less than 110 kg and cannot travel at more than 10 km/h do not have to be registered, provided they are being used by a person with mobility problems. A person driving a motorised wheelchair under these circumstances is defined as a pedestrian under the Australian Road Rules and is permitted to travel on a footpath or nature strip adjacent to the road.
Vehicles exempt from registration are covered by the nominal defendant scheme (administered by the Motor Accidents Authority) if they are at fault in an accident in NSW on a road or road-related area and cause injury to another person. However, this cover is only valid in NSW.
"
This may at least be a starting point to tackle other states. The Qld mobility bike issue Adverse Effects mentions would be a great one to take to one of the current affairs programs. It's amazing what a public spotlight on bureaucratic stupidity can do.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
User avatar
lithbattboss
Groupie
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu, 03 Apr 2008, 21:50
Location: Sydney

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by lithbattboss »

Adverse Effects wrote: in QLD you simply are not allowed to put more than 200watt on a pedal Vehicles whether you want to rego it or not
but you can buy one of thos pockit bikes and add indicators to it and you can rego it and drive it on the road and even on the freeway if it can do 90kmp/h+

That is not correct actually (after checking up on the regulations as a result of being pulled up by the police while ridng my electric scooter after Christmas). Pocket bikes are absolutely banned in Qld as you can see here-
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registration/ ... twork.aspx
What really annoys me is that long before electric bikes became available I bought a Sachs petrol assisted bicycle.
As with the pocket bikes in the above link it also says that in the state of Qld ALL bicycles with a petrol motor assistance are banned.
What I would like to ask is how can a ICE powered bicycle with a 200W motor be claimed as being "unsafe" when an electric bike with a 200W motor is ok?

Also it says that any e-bike with a motor rated at more than 200W needs to comply with the ADR's but doesn't need to be registered and the same rules apply as if it was any other bicycle. So the way I read the regulations if you have a safe bike and you can show it complies with the ADR's then it is perfectly legal.
Can someone point out where I am wrong in my interpretation here?
Last edited by lithbattboss on Sun, 13 Feb 2011, 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
Where power matters.
XPS Power cells 25C discharge for high performance applicatiopns.
www.lifetechlithium.com
User avatar
EV2Go
Senior Member
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 00:21
Real Name: Paul
Location: Brisbane 1963

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by EV2Go »

This is a toughie as it blurs the lines of what is a push bike and what is a motorbike.

Once upon a time there was a clear line of delineation. I remember back when I was a kid (70s) a friend of mine had a Honda step through that was pedal powered. If the engine was below 50cc (was 49cc) and pedal assisted you didn’t need a license or registration (or helmet back then).

Now that was essentially a real motorbike (with blinkers, mirrors, fuel tank etc) that was deemed not to need rego, but what you’re looking to do is create a motorbike (by definition > 200W) out of a push bike.
That pedal powered motorbike still had to meet all the applicable ADRs of the day as it was built as a motorbike irrespective of it needing to be registered or not.

You’re looking to take something that was designed as one thing and create another it makes perfect sense that they would want you to meet and comply with all applicable ADRs for that type of vehicle. Registration really doesn’t factor into the decision of it being a pushbike or a motorbike.

Agree with LBB about the pocket bikes I heard they weren’t legal on the roads as well. People a few years back were using them as tow bikes for bigger bikes at the drags, but they weren’t registered for road use.

BTW not sure if it is still legal, but there is a guy in Toowoomba who rides a petrol powered pushbike past my house all the time. The engine sounds quite small possibly 50cc range, fixed to the back wheel.

Edit: Technically speaking it will never be a motorbike because if it is pedal assisted it is classed a moped.
Last edited by EV2Go on Tue, 15 Feb 2011, 06:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
lithbattboss
Groupie
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu, 03 Apr 2008, 21:50
Location: Sydney

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by lithbattboss »

That still does not answer my question about my Sachs power assisted pedal bike. This is designed as a proper pedal bicycle with a ICE motor rated at 197W. It is a very high quality bike designed and built in Germany and would last a lifetime if properly maintained. It is not some cheap bike made in China.
So how can the Qld transport authorities claim an ICE assisted bike with less than 200W motor is "dangerous" compared with an e-bike with a 200W motor???
Where power matters.
XPS Power cells 25C discharge for high performance applicatiopns.
www.lifetechlithium.com
Marvin
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 06 Feb 2012, 19:32
Location: Melbourne

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by Marvin »

I've had similar discussions with vicroads.

Keep the postings going.
Marvin
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 06 Feb 2012, 19:32
Location: Melbourne

My VicRoads Adventure

Post by Marvin »

Just spoke to vicroads and asked your question.

Your twin 750watt bicycle can be registered as recreational but can not be driven on normal roads. Only on state forest designated areas which they have maps for.

Good luck with a 1.5kw mountain bike. Sounds dangerous to me.
zwright
Noobie
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed, 21 Oct 2020, 10:04

Re: My VicRoads Adventure

Post by zwright »

Hi all (or those that are still here after 8-9 years). I was looking down this sort of path for an ebike conversion, but this is really the only resource that I could find on this topic. Did anyone have any luck going down the rec-reg path with these sort of conversions at all? Cheers.
Kudra
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu, 19 Nov 2020, 05:13

Re: My VicRoads Adventure

Post by Kudra »

My electric motorbike has a 1.5kw motor. It's eec certified and I'm going to register it next year (currently being used solely on a private rural property) when *apparently* they are reclassifying electric motorcycles (currently flat rate equiv of 500cc, regardless of wattage/speed). I am yet to receive a response to my email asking them to detail the reclassifications planned.

If enough of us keep hammering at them to get their act together hopefully we will see licensing for safe and green alternative vehicles improve to the point that more uptake occurs, but with the new EV tax, I'm deeply concerned about the lack of government will in this area in Australia generally, compared to most of the world. It's honestly bizarre.
User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 3611
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: My VicRoads Adventure

Post by jonescg »

Your best bet will be an ICV - individually constructed vehicle. It will still call for lots of ADR (Australian Design Rules) compliance, but it's a legit avenue for projects like this.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.
Post Reply