DC Regen from practical and personal experience.

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Alex_Brooy
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DC Regen from practical and personal experience.

Post by Alex_Brooy » Mon, 03 Jan 2011, 04:01

coulomb wrote: ...It seems to me that compound wound motors (but with the shunt part of the field available on separate terminals) might be more suitable for this. I see that Kostov make some compound wound motors, but they only go to about 10 kW, and the shunt field connections are not available on separate terminals. Then again, these motors would be designed to use the shunt part of the field all the time, not just when using regen. Also, it may not be an effective use of the space needed for the shunt field windings...

I specially designed this "recuperator" only for series winded motor. As you have mentioned earlier, most of ev conversions use series winded motor. But the reality is so that most self-made EVs are american. And they try to buy only american made. That fact does not inspire me a lot of hopes for mass production and sales.

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Post by antiscab » Mon, 03 Jan 2011, 04:07

Don't worry, us Australian's import everything from everywhere Image

are you planning on building and selling this product?

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Alex_Brooy
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Post by Alex_Brooy » Mon, 03 Jan 2011, 05:01

antiscab wrote: Don't worry, us Australian's import everything from everywhere Image
are you planning on building and selling this product?
Matt

Yes Matt, I hope to find EV owners to buy about 50 devices till first half of 2011. Such a quantity can help me to set the price in 300USD per pc. Otherwise it shall cost more.

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Post by Goombi » Wed, 05 Jan 2011, 02:51

Possible solution to Regen use with gearbox (Temporary Theory)
It occurred to me that if one was to cut power to the controller the motor will stop pulling or charging then one can change the gear higher or lower once the gear is engaged switch the power on with accelerator on..

Cheers Eugen

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Post by djsharpe » Mon, 07 Feb 2011, 18:14

Ive been agonising over regen myself. I think it really only has value for significant declines which I have to confront in my travels now. My suggestion is an isolated DC-DC for the field and picking off the armature direct via an isolated DC-DC boost converter. In my case the first DC-DC will probably come from an existing 12V inverter that I will modify to include a low voltage winding/ rectifier to provide 200A at about 1 Volt. The second power supply will initially be from a bridge inverter modified to provide a no load boost ratio of about 5/2 ie armature volts 60 produces 150V. A realistic rating for this would be around 10kW. Both regen control of field & regen current would be possible using a separate controls, no engagement via foot brake.
It will be possible to drive with this external current to the field but care will be needed as there would be more heating. The above should get around gear changing. My own EV would never be able to regen even in 3rd gear as the back emf is too low. You can check this in your own EVs by putting a meter across the armature & seeing what voltages you get in normal driving. David

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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 07 Feb 2011, 19:39

I looked into this myself when designing the first prototype, ie using DC/DC converters to get regen from a DC motor. However the cost of converters is pretty high, and I found that you get more for your money if just spent on extra batteries. If building the DC/DC converter yourself it may be different - just remember the efficiency losses each time you convert.

I also looked at using a supercapacitor for regen - also expensive, but simpler, and fewer losses.
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Post by djsharpe » Mon, 07 Feb 2011, 20:48

Those plug in prius kits include a 48V to 200V (or whatever it is) converter to supply the traction pack so there is equipment out there. I already have a number of 250VDC to 240V AC transformerless inverters that I can mod for my purposes. D

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Post by coulomb » Tue, 08 Feb 2011, 13:45

djsharpe wrote: Those plug in prius kits include a 48V to 200V (or whatever it is) converter to supply the traction pack so there is equipment out there.
I suspect that the DC/DC they use is completely custom; I've not seen anything similar elsewhere.
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Post by Kermit2 » Sat, 26 Mar 2011, 03:07

Hi Guys,
Kelly now has series regen controllers available very reasonable priced from 72-144V see link
http://kellycontroller.com/hsr-series-m ... 76_77.html
Regards Leigh

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Post by Alex_Brooy » Sat, 26 Mar 2011, 03:44

I've read the manual, http://kellycontroller.com/mot/download ... Manual.pdf
but didn't find info about speed control. I think it is necessary feature if they use brake pedal resistor. Otherwise user may waste energy while pressing brake pedal at zero speed. But may be I missed smth.

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Post by Alex_Brooy » Sat, 26 Mar 2011, 03:52

One more thing, IMHO: Kelly contrlr has to control Field current during accelerating separately from Armature. This makes series motor not exactly series, but rather sepex. It seems that such design increases the amount of transistors twice vs ordinary series contoller.

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Post by Kermit2 » Sat, 26 Mar 2011, 04:28

Hi Alex,
The reality with a series field motor you do have to control the field seperately to initiate and vary the amount of regen. So we don't know the internal design of there controller how they handle the control of the field, mind you it can't be too complex because there is only a small price difference between non regen $569 and regen controller $899 for 600A 72V controller. A lot cheaper than a Zapi controller which seems to be much more complicated setup. zapi manual here      http://greenev.zapto.org/zapi/zapimanual/zapimanual.pdf
Regards Leigh

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Post by Goombi » Sat, 26 Mar 2011, 15:24

The reality with a series field motor you do have to control the field seperately to initiate and vary the amount of regen. COPY
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There has been a lots of discussions about Regen in the history of AEVA I suggest to list back and obtain more information If you would require some Diagrams of DC Regen motors and Regen Controllers they also should be there if not send your e-mail and I be glad to send you some

Cheers

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