Blade EV - New model

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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EV2Go
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Blade EV - New model

Post by EV2Go »

marcopolo wrote: I don't wish to be unkind. But, here the thing. If you can't say anything, don't!

Otherwise you run the risk of everyone thinking you are just a wanker!You must realise that from time to time, these forums attract wankers, who appear, claim to be about to reveal amazing developments, only to disappear when challenged. So perhaps you will forgive a certain cynicism?


I have to both agree and disagree with this statement. I agree because what you say is accurate of any forum, but disagree because occasionally people do actually get inside info from someone in the know.

Hypothetically speaking if someone posts that in 6 months time a brand new battery technology will be released that gives you ten times the power and the distance for half the price, do you dismiss them as a Wally just because they can’t divulge a source due a confidentiality agreement?

Bull crap or not I kind of feel obligated to give them a small benefit of the doubt, especially if I am about to buy a new battery pack. I am by my own admission a huge sceptic, I have been my whole life, but really can you afford to take the chance and not give it some question of truth?

Obviously forum credibility plays a big part in how much faith you assign to what is being said. Ask yourself is what they are saying consistent with other post they have made? Do other posts reek of self promotion? Is it their first or second post on the forum? There are a number of criteria I believe you could put the poster in question through to determine in your own mind if you believe any of it.

Edit:
Also you really have to factor in was the information given interpreted accurately? Sometimes I believe we are all guilty of hearing what we want to hear from a conversation.

Despite my forum differences with LBB from time to time and not being able to get a straight answer from him on price (mostly due to me being an impatient dick and not communicating well), he has in the past mentioned things that were coming up that were confidential, and did come to light as promised.
Last edited by EV2Go on Tue, 22 Feb 2011, 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by marcopolo »

EV2Go wrote: Despite my forum differences with LBB from time to time and not being able to get a straight answer from him on price (mostly due to me being an impatient dick and not communicating well), he has in the past mentioned things that were coming up that were confidential, and did come to light as promised.
There's is some truth in what you say, for that reason, I din't simply dismiss LLB without some qualification.

I don't dispute that sometimes people can't for various reasons substaintiate the information they possess. However, when attacking others people or organizations, it's only fair that you can validate your negative remarks. It's not good enough to simply say, "two blokes told me"!.

If on the other hand, you wish to speculate, while possessing inside information, that's a different matter. It's up to the reader to detirmine the value of your speculation.

The difference is, when you claim something to be 'factual', you must cite some valid source that can be verified. If on the other hand, you state from the outset that your opinion, is just your opinion, readers can either accept or dismiss the veiw according to their own judgement.
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Blade EV - New model

Post by EV2Go »

Yep can't argue with that.
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Post by lithbattboss »

marcopolo wrote:
In the meantime, yes I meant Ford EV's on sale in Australia and the US. The Focus is in pre-production with demonstrators now scheduled for release in August. in the US, Ford also build the Ford EV Transit Connect Van, and a variety of specialist commercial vehicles. Ford also built an EV Ranger and a Hybrid Escape.

But there is another one in Australia which you have not mentioned and is a full family size EV. It has been made (converted from a new standard production model) especially in Australia with the aim of showing the public that EV's don't have to be tiny little cars such as the BEV Getz or Nissan Leaf but that an EV can be full size family car.
We can revist this topic in a few months when the EV is put on public show.
As I said before, things may be slowly happening in the professional EV world in Australia behind the scenes but they are certainly starting to happen so I expect there will be lots of news later in the year.
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Post by Electrocycle »

What are the quality issues with the Blade?
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Post by marcopolo »

lithbattboss wrote: But there is another one in Australia which you have not mentioned and is a full family size EV. We can revist this topic in a few months when the EV is put on public show.


Er,....It's a bit difficult for me to mention, when it hasn't been revealed!?

I'm talking about what's for sale now!

You say Blade is inferior because there are far superior products available.

I say where can I see these products, where can I buy one?

You say, you can't because they're a secret!!

I'm not saying your not sincere, but if you heard that crap from anyone else, wouldn't you think that it was a little bit silly!? I'm being patient because Andrew, whose knowledge I respect, believes you to be genuine.

Until you can validate what you say, don't you think it maybe better to phrase your information in a less confrontational style?



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Post by Electrocycle »

so no info on the quality issues?
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Post by photomac »

I still find it exciting! The new Blade that is.
Quality is relative. Horses for courses.
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Post by marcopolo »

To be quite fair, every vehicle ever made, has quality issues. Theres always something that could have been improved. Even vehicles cost over $500,000 still have area of technical improvement. (or no new models).

But this is a far cry from defaming a the quality of a vehicle on vague or minor unsubstantiated grounds, based on rumour, prejudice or old stories. An instance of this is the latest Jaguar, the marque has spent 15 years improving the quality and reliability until it equals BMW and Mercedes. But, there's still the loudmouthed know-it-all, who still repeats the clichéd old remarks. (I note that this sort of guy could never afford to by a new Jaguar XJ!)

I also find the release of new Blade Runner exiting! But then, I might actually buy one, not just talk about EV's, that either don't exist, or are incredibly expensive and impractical!
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Post by Electrocycle »

marcopolo wrote:improving the quality and reliability until it equals BMW and Mercedes.


unfortunately that's not very difficult!
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Post by marcopolo »

Electrocycle wrote:unfortunately that's not very difficult!
Agreed, I should have used Lexus, but didn't want to seem too biased!   
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Post by PlanB »

Could someone please keep marcopolo typing while I quietly unbolt his electric rear transaxle? I'm sure it's in heaps better condition than the novelty door stop I'm bringing in from the USA (five years in a wreckers yard has done a lot for the patina).
Certainly a spirited debate you got going here fellas. Personally I find the whole buy/build thing a real conundrum.
The current crop of show room EV rice-bubbles-on-wheels makes we want to try a conversion but I worry that the project is beyond me or that sometime before I finish (probably just after I've shelled out big bucks for the battery pack) some manufacturer will bring out something affordable & snappy.
I think one thing we can all agree on is things are certainly movin' fast in the EV world?
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Post by marcopolo »

PlanB wrote: Could someone please keep marcopolo typing while I quietly unbolt his electric rear transaxle??
Careful, you don't want to be messin' with guy's rear ends....

There is no debate about buy/build.

Those who have the time and passion will build for the sheer joy of creating a personalised EV with their own hands. (and more power to them)

The debate is about those fence sitters who prattle on with conspiracy theories and such, bemoaning why automakers "killed the Electric Car", but won't support the local Australian pioneer.
The current crop of show room EV rice-bubbles-on-wheels makes me want to try a conversion but I worry that the project is beyond me or that sometime before I finish (probably just after I've shelled out big bucks for the battery pack) some manufacturer will bring out something affordable & snappy.
Whew! Thats a relief! For a moment there I thought you were actually going to do something. But hey, at least you worked out a good excuse not to either buy or build!
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Post by marcopolo »

lithbattboss wrote: But there is another one in Australia which you have not mentioned and is a full family size EV. It has been made (converted from a new standard production model) especially in Australia with the aim of showing the public that EV's don't have to be tiny little cars such as the BEV Getz or Nissan Leaf but that an EV can be full size family car.
We can revist this topic in a few months when the EV is put on public show.
As I said before, things may be slowly happening in the professional EV world in Australia behind the scenes but they are certainly starting to happen so I expect there will be lots of news later in the year.
Ah, this highly confidential and top secret EV development, wouldn't be the not so secret, and certainly not very confidential 'concept'vehicle by EV engineering. would it?

Press release: EV Engineering is a collaborative venture between leading Australian automotive suppliers, Air International, Bosch, Continental and Futuris, and electrical infrastructure provider, Better Place, to develop a proof of concept Australian electric vehicle.

The project goal is to demonstrate the technical viability and attractiveness to customers of a large electric vehicle. If successful the project will allow technologies to be considered for possible future mass production and will help to develop electric vehicle engineering skills and components within the Australian supplier industry.

The Australian Government’s Green Car Innovation Fund will contribute $3.55m to the project.

Goodness me, How impressive! A 'concept car' Built from a Commodore no less!

I note the involvement of Better Place. I am not surprised, it's furphy projects like this that 'Better Place' is renowned.
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Post by Johny »

The Australian Government’s Green Car Innovation Fund will contribute $3.55m to the project.
then
If successful the project will ....
IF SUCCESSFUL????
Geez - for $3.55 Mill plus I'd be happy to put a SUCCESSFUL electric Commodore on the road. Do I get to define "successful" as well - bet they do. Hey for that money I could quit work and finish mine first - then to the Commodore...
Sorry - don't mean to attract marcopolo's attention (Hides again).
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Post by EV2Go »

While 3.55 Million seems like a lot you have to remember that it cost something like 1 Billion to produce the VZ Commodore, ok so they don't have to reinvent the body shape, but there would be significant parts made to make it look factory finished.
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Post by marcopolo »

EV2Go wrote: While 3.55 Million seems like a lot you have to remember that it cost something like 1 Billion to produce the VZ Commodore, ok so they don't have to reinvent the body shape, but there would be significant parts made to make it look factory finished.


It's hard to evaluate the worth of such a project. The stated intention of producing 7 concept EV's based on the Commodore seems a waste of time and money.

What's the object of this exercise? Since EV engineering has no ability to actually build a production vehicle, an R&D concept development with government money to benefit GM, must be great for GM, and GM suppliers, but what benefit is the Australian Taxpayer getting? Why not just give the money to GM?

Maybe I'm missing the point, but it's not exactly difficult to prove that given enough money, you can create a large EV with considerable range. (Look at jonny's Hillman Vogue, it works and is very much cheaper to build)

So what? the question is, how do you produce the production version economically?

This sort of R&D should have real benefit goals to qualify for taxpayer funding.

Some of this funding is being allocated to ex-labour MP Evan Thornley's 'Better Place' to prop-up the ridiculous battery swapping concept.

If the government wants the three large car makers to produce EV versions of family cars, there are better incentives to offer, than this waste of resources.
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Post by Johny »

marcopolo wrote:(Look at jonny's Hillman Vogue, it works and is very much cheaper to build)
I'd love to pretend it was so - I hate to kind of side track things a bit here but:
1. It's a Humber Vogue (Singer Vogue in UK and NZ)
2. It doesn't work until my wife agrees it's not a "Mix Master". I still haven't driven it and can't until I sort out this Bl&@#$y VW accelerator which refuses to mount anywhere remotely ergonomic (must blog accelerator woes...).

Anyway - don't respond to this - back on track.

My opinion - the whole thing is a GM PR exercise. Royal Auto (For OS readers, RACV - Australian end-user auto support group magazine) had an article on the Volt a couple of issues back and I laughed - they're not even bringing it in to Oz in the near future. I guess they need another way to stay in the EV scene for now. Hmmm - this seems cheap - the Australian public can pay for our PR.

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Post by photomac »

I still find the new Blade based on the i20 exciting Image

Have a read of this article by Alan Kohler
http://www.smartcompany.com.au/manufact ... ohler.html

As for an experimental investment, R&D, well - perhaps there might be a budding young thinker whose inspiration is sparked by a "crude" demonstration? As for using a Commodore - well I think it wise to demonstrate the current popular car running on the "unknown" new technology - to show that the power source is manageable.

Hopefully the Commodore experiment will remove the floor-pan and replace it with a sandwich floor containing the batteries.

Battery swapping - I liked the idea. Particularly for long haul trips on current economical battery technology. And it gives business an opportunity to partake in the regime - of which charging at home does not! Business is scared that there is little need for a middle-operator. These established middle-operators will pay to promote negativity towards electrification.
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Post by evric »

They probably will do the floor pan bit...because Better Place is involved. It's just what they want to happen.
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Post by photomac »

yeh - I didn't think that through ! Image Of course Better Place would want that.   Image
Last edited by photomac on Mon, 28 Feb 2011, 09:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by T1 Terry »

If they can build an electric Commodore that out launched the FPV and HSV units and gave them a scare down the 1/4 mile they would e on the showroom floor within 2 yrs, that's just the way the general perception is. At the moment Mr & Mrs general public still see an electric vehicle as a never ready powered shopping trolley, not a serious contender. If they can get this thing to work and it coincides with lithium sulphur batteries becoming a viable reality, a family sized car that could do a few hundred k's per charge would suddenly seem like a viable alternative. What harm can it do, better spent here than a trip os to check out what someone else is doing. Trouble is, it's been so long since Aust actually did any real R & D it appears as strange and unusual and a waste of money.

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Post by photomac »

Image Well said T1 Terry
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Post by AMPrentice »

With all due respect to BEV and their efforts.....
The new blade would sell better if it wasnt a quickly dating hatchback.
If it was a retro style non-dating mini van it would fill in the big
gap that exists in delivery vehicles with twin sliding doors.
Much like the new VW concept which is also a family car.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/ ... ept-31.jpg
Now that I would buy and happily own if a higher roof was implemented.
Businesses would benefit and an enthusiast market would start.
They could use the Indian Suzuki Maruti Eeco (suzuki carry 1998-2004 model)
as a base for cheap gliders and use locally designed chrome and dress finishings.
Instead people see the blade as an overpriced Hyundai i20.
Last edited by AMPrentice on Wed, 23 Mar 2011, 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by marcopolo »

AMPrentice wrote: With all due respect to BEV and their efforts.....
The new blade would sell better if it wasnt a quickly dating hatchback.
It took Ross Blade many years millions of dollars and a great deal of hard work to establish a relationship with high quality manufacturer like Hyundai.In turn a great deal of the expense of chassis, and safety development is eliminated. Warranty spare parts and servicing network is provided by Hyundai.

As Hyundai grows in reputation the Blade benefits.

The small hatchback market is the most accessible and profitable for EV passenger vehicles. That's why, Leaf, Renault, Peugeot, iMev, Volt etc are all competing in that segment.


The idea of a small EV people mover is a very good idea, but presents real problems in execution. The Indian Suzuki Maruti Eeco, would be a nightmare to import and sell in Australia.

There's a huge difference between a home conversion and trying to meet the strict requirements and regulations of a real production manufacturer.

If Hyundai had a small people mover, that might be a different story, but unfortunately they don't.

There's a PRC company that manufactures an EV version of exactly the vehicle you mention, lithium batteries and all. But, just try to import such a vehicle and see the official response!   

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