Government EV Policy

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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Post by marcopolo »

Comparing the pathetically weak and sometimes plain obstructionist policy displayed by both state and federal governments in Australia, I think the best comparison is with our fellow member of the Commonwealth, Canada.

Both Australia and Canada share the same sort of demographics, cultural, legal and political heritage.

Yet, the State of Ontario possess enough concerned citizens to select a government with the following policies.
OMT wrote:The next steps towards greener vehicles in Ontario
The McGuinty government is calling on all Ontarians to support an ambitious electric vehicle challenge that will result in one in 20 passenger vehicles on the province's roads being electric by the year 2020: "1 in 20 by 2020."

Transportation is the largest and fastest-growing sector for producing greenhouse gas emissions in Ontario and passenger vehicles are a major part of that. Having one in 20 passenger vehicles be electric by 2020 will not only help the environment, but it will strengthen our economy by driving innovation, revitalizing the global auto sector and creating jobs. And the Ontario government will provide world-leading incentives to help families make the smart environmental choice to drive electric vehicles.

Purchase rebates to encourage sales - The McGuinty government will offer consumers a rebate to help reduce the higher cost of purchasing electric vehicles. The rebate will be available for plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles purchased after July 1, 2010 and will provide between $4,000 and $10,000 towards the purchase of an electric vehicle depending on the vehicle's battery capacity. The high-end of the rebate would be the highest in Canada and amongst the highest in the world.

Rewarding plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicle purchasers with Green Vehicle Licence Plates - To reward early adopters, the Ontario government will introduce a unique green vehicle licence plate for plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles. It will provide recognition to electric vehicle purchasers, allowing them to use Ontario's High-Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes for a limited time (5 years starting 2010), even if there is just one person in the vehicle. They will also be allowed access to public recharging facilities at select Ontario government and GO Transit parking lots. The University of Toronto and private companies such as Walmart Canada will designate priority parking spots for vehicles with green plates.

Electric Vehicles integrated into the Ontario Public Service (OPS) vehicle fleet - The McGuinty government will lead the way in building consumer demand by purchasing electric vehicles for the OPS fleet. Twenty per cent of eligible new Ontario Public Sector passenger vehicle purchases will be electric by 2020.

Support for public charging infrastructure - Ontario will build infrastructure for charging electric vehicles through a combination of private sector companies and Ontario's existing electricity utilities. The McGuinty government will take the lead in supplying this infrastructure by ensuring recharging capacity is integrated in parking facilities owned by the Ontario government and GO Transit parking facilities for public to use. Ontario is working with the private sector and electricity organizations to develop business models for recharging facilities that will work within Ontario's regulated electricity market.

Compare that with the policies of your state? Ask your relevant transport minister how can Ontario do it, and your state is unable?

Useless to ask the Rudd administration. We have two state election coming up this year.... So, if enough people ask..
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Post by Johny »

Canada are kind of stuffing that up at the moment though - aren't they?
http://www.10n10.ca/e/Ontario%20EV%20Ban.shtml
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Post by marcopolo »

Johny wrote: Canada are kind of stuffing that up at the moment though -aren't they?
Johny, The author of the website you refer, has an undisclosed agenda! He always tells only a bit of the truth, coupled with a good deal of hogwash!

There is no 'ban' on electric vehicles in Ontario, official or unofficial. But this is a story that hard to kill!

Mr McMahon, has apparently, for some years, encountered a series of run-ins with OMT officials. This is his problem. A search of OMT EV registrations, reveals that there are over 511 EV's registered for Road use.

His reference to the Premier as acknowledging the problem is a distortion! the unfortunate Premier simplly responsed to a question he knew nothing about! The Premier assumed (wrongly) assumed the questioner was genuinely in possession of accurate information. The guarded response, accurately,conveyed that the refusal of any EV by the OMT, was probably for good reason.

Like Victoria, OMT has tightened up the regulations regarding private donor conversions, following a series of lawsuits in the US.
(Although in Vic, it seems just Bloody minded) Ford have 16 EV's registered for road use in Ontario, including a 12 tonne truck!

McMahon, used to introduce himself as the President of the Canadian Electric Vehicle Association, an organisation which does not exist, and was too close to the Electric Vehicle Association of Canada, which curiously enough, threatened to sue him! Although, in his defence, he does seem to have attracted a lot of the crazier sort of supporters,who may misrepresent him.

The authentic Electric Vehicle Society of Ontario, makes no mention of any ban on is website, but does mention the latest EV to the Ontario EV fleet, an EV Delorean conversion!

As I speak a Canadian colleague of mine is picking up his Ontario licence plates for an EV Ford Ranger. The licencing testing was rigorous, but he passed andis on the road.

Like Australian, Canada has Federal standards for new manufactured vehicles, these would apply to Ford, Nissan(sorry, Citroen in Quebec)Leaf etc ..

One mans disputes, don't make a policy!
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Post by Johny »

Oh dear. I was not aware of this misinformation. I picked up on this on DiyElectricCar. There seem to be quite a few folk (on Diy) who believe there is a moratorium on Canadian EV registrations at the moment. Thanks for the explanation marco.
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Post by marty11 »

Hi!

Perhaps with Toyota and Daimler both investing in Tesla, this could be mentioned to Australian members of parliament via some lobbying.    

To receive a "who cares " reply from mps, would amount to them "putting heads in the sand" and avoiding the opportunities for jobs in factories in Australia, and potential lost sales of any Australian made ev.s

Perhaps AEVA might be interested in posting a letter.. and deciding on its content at a meeting, then placing the draft letter on this forum for everyone to see / comment on, prior to lodging it, and perhaps after receiving a response, doing a media release.

Whilst not advocating AEVA entering into too much of a political agenda, perhaps a proactive approach to furthering development of ev's in Australia may be a worthwhile pursuit.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.. Marty
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Post by marcopolo »

marty11 wrote: Hi! Perhaps with Toyota and Daimler both investing in Tesla, this could be mentioned to Australian members of parliament via some lobbying.    
To receive a "who cares " reply from mps, would amount to them "putting heads in the sand" and avoiding the opportunities for jobs in factories in Australia, and potential lost sales of any Australian made ev.s
Perhaps AEVA might be interested in posting a letter.. and deciding on its content at a meeting, then placing the draft letter on this forum for everyone to see / comment on, prior to lodging it, and perhaps after receiving a response, doing a media release.
Whilst not advocating AEVA entering into too much of a political agenda, perhaps a proactive approach to furthering development of ev's in Australia may be a worthwhile pursuit.Any thoughts?
Cheers.. Marty


This is a very good idea Marty. If sent to MP's of all persuasions, it would be perfectly fair and unbiased to judge MP's from their own response!



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Post by Thalass »

Huzzah for Ontario! Guess where I am now? Visiting the in-laws in Ontario! They even have hybrid buses in Toronto. Though I'm not sure exactly what kind of hybrid. haha

Up to $10k off of the price of a Tesla Model S? Awesome. It'll make migrating easier eventually.

I vaguely recall some problems with ZENN trying to get a NEV or quadricycle type vehicle legalised in Ontario. And I think the problem was with it's quadricycle nature, more than it being an EV. I think.
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.
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Post by marcopolo »

Thalass wrote: Huzzah for Ontario! Guess where I am now? Visiting the in-laws in Ontario! They even have hybrid buses in Toronto. Though I'm not sure exactly what kind of hybrid. haha

Up to $10k off of the price of a Tesla Model S? Awesome. It'll make migrating easier eventually.

I vaguely recall some problems with ZENN trying to get a NEV or quadricycle type vehicle legalised in Ontario. And I think the problem was with it's quadricycle nature, more than it being an EV. I think.


Thank you for that "on the spot report!"

I think Toronto was contemplating re-introduction of a trolley bus network.

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Post by marty11 »

Here is another lot of US incentives.. for ev's .. from BOTH sides of parliament.

" A little good-natured competition is always a good motivator. Advocates of electric vehicles in Congress seem to think so, too. Lawmakers in both houses of Congress have introduced bills designed to get more electric cars on the road, including a contest among EV-friendly regions to apply for nearly $1 billion each to subsidize electric car purchases and build the charging networks necessary to keep them rolling.

As a bonus, the Senate's proposal includes a $10 million prize for the developer of a commercially viable EV battery that can go 500 miles on a single charge.

Under the House measure, communities would compete to be designated as an early deployment region--at least five would be selected--making them eligible to receive $800 million each to use as incentives for EV purchases and charging stations. Winning communities would be required to provide rebates of up to $2,000 per vehicle for up to 100,000 vehicles, and $2,000 per home charging station (or up to $50,000 for businesses that install multiple stations).

The Senate version would create five to 15 of the deployment regions but would fund each with only $250 million. It would also provide rebates of up to $10,000 to purchasers of electric vehicles.

The House bill would cost about $11 billion over five years; the price tag on the Senate measure is about $10 billion. Differences in the two bills will need to be worked out in committee.

President Obama wants 1 million EVs on the road by 2015. This legislation ought to spur that goal."

source link:
http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/20 ... tric-cars/

note the $10,000,000 prize if you come up with a 500 mile range battery..

cheers - Marty
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Post by marcopolo »

marty11 wrote: Here is another lot of US incentives.. for ev's .. from BOTH sides of parliament.

" A little good-natured competition is always a good motivator. Advocates of electric vehicles in Congress seem to think so, too. Lawmakers in both houses of Congress have introduced bills designed to get more electric cars on the road, including a contest among EV-friendly regions to apply for nearly $1 billion each to subsidize electric car purchases and build the charging networks necessary to keep them rolling.

As a bonus, the Senate's proposal includes a $10 million prize for the developer of a commercially viable EV battery that can go 500 miles on a single charge.

Under the House measure, communities would compete to be designated as an early deployment region--at least five would be selected--making them eligible to receive $800 million each to use as incentives for EV purchases and charging stations. Winning communities would be required to provide rebates of up to $2,000 per vehicle for up to 100,000 vehicles, and $2,000 per home charging station (or up to $50,000 for businesses that install multiple stations).

The Senate version would create five to 15 of the deployment regions but would fund each with only $250 million. It would also provide rebates of up to $10,000 to purchasers of electric vehicles.

The House bill would cost about $11 billion over five years; the price tag on the Senate measure is about $10 billion. Differences in the two bills will need to be worked out in committee.

President Obama wants 1 million EVs on the road by 2015. This legislation ought to spur that goal."

source link:
http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/20 ... tric-cars/

note the $10,000,000 prize if you come up with a 500 mile range battery.. cheers - Marty


Well done the US!

What a contrast to our own miserable Rudderless government!
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Post by marty11 »

and now 40 Imievs coming to australia . Government ministers drove one Wednesday ,..

link: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-na ... -wyjh.html

Mr Albanese said 85 per cent of Australians drive less than 100 kilometres a day, so the car was ideal for their needs.

"Fully electric vehicles offer significant benefits in dealing with climate change in the longer term," he said.

"There's no doubt that the Australian market is ready for an electric vehicle and that electric vehicle is right here today."

Mitsubishi will release its first 40 i-MiEVs in July for Australian governments, media and fleet buyers to trial.

Could be a good time to write to Mr albanese re any help funding the introduction of ev's..anybody here on the forum want to write to Mr Albanese?   


cheers.. Marty
The federal government will try out three.
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Post by coulomb »

marty11 wrote: Mitsubishi will release its first 40 i-MiEVs in July for Australian governments, media and fleet buyers to trial.

Yes, but what about the humans? Don't they get to buy any?

Sigh.   Image
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Post by marcopolo »

marty11 wrote: and now 40 Imievs coming to australia . Government ministers drove one Wednesday ,..

Mr Albanese said 85 per cent of Australians drive less than 100 kilometres a day, so the car was ideal for their needs.

"Fully electric vehicles offer significant benefits in dealing with climate change in the longer term," he said.

"There's no doubt that the Australian market is ready for an electric vehicle and that electric vehicle is right here today."

Mitsubishi will release its first 40 i-MiEVs in July for Australian governments, media and fleet buyers to trial.

Could be a good time to write to Mr albanese re any help funding the introduction of ev's..anybody here on the forum want to write to Mr Albanese?   The federal government will try out three.


These cars are on loan to the federal government. The Ministers were both asked what incentives the Australian government would provide for to encourage the introduction of EV's, but both dodged the question.

Just a cynical photo opportunity. The Rudd government is right behind EV development, because that the best place to stab the knife!
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Post by marty11 »

yes.. they dodged the questions. .thats why its good to write to them.. keep plugging away.. ?

Just an idea.. . Image
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Post by T2 »

-marcopolo
           let me give yet another view of Darryl McMahon and EVAC.

Although I've known Darryl since 1981, I have not had opportunity to converse with him lately, and casual attempts to contact him via email on the econogics.com website have not been successful either.

So let me say that at the time I knew him he had just formed the Elec Vehicle.Assoc of Canada along with Fred Green (who pased away this February 2010) and a couple of ev'ers who happened also to be civil servants. I believe they worked for the National Research Council of Canada but like Darryl they were passionate about EVs as well, and into EV construction.

Darryl had a hand in the formation of and the writing up of the charter for EVAC. EVAC was incorporated so that it could be eligible for govt funding for things like organising public interest polls etc. Eventually the govt guys decided that the 'captains of industry' should be invited on the board too. They came on and immediately took over, with the constitution being amended or overwritten in such a way that it was now more difficult to oust incumbent board officers. It soon became clear that other than the EV Symposiums held in Montreal, it was doing little else to promote EVs and garner public interest and support. EVAC became more of a lobbying arm for private industry.

The clubs became chapters of EVAC which then began levying increasingly large fees on these clubs and any other members of the public who wished to become affiliated. Of course fees charged to business could be booked against income of course. Eventually the clubs were ejected as the business sector unilaterally decided it wanted to distance itself from the groups who spoke for the backyard constructors. Despite the fact that these were the folks that were getting vehicles, their own vehicles, into parades to be part of the outreach during the early years of the green movement.
There might indeed be 511 registered EVs in Canada - but does that include those electrified aircraft loading ramps ? At any rate 511 vehicles are not a lot to show for thirty years of promotion. Furthermore I doubt any of those vehicles were available to the general public through conventional retail channels.

This is purely conjecture on my part but I would assume Darryl set up the Canadian EV Association to add a stronger national presence to the EV interest in Canada. Since there is an AEVA I see no reason there should not be a CEVA.   
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Post by marcopolo »

T2 wrote:let me give yet another view of Darryl McMahon and EVA

Thank you for providing a little of the background of Darryl McMahon. Darryl is obviously passionate about EV's.

From my correspondence with Darryl, I have found him to be more passionate than accurate. This is often the case with early pioneers! Henry Ford nearly destroyed Ford by refusing to supersede the Model 'T'.

Darryl clearly has issues with the authorities, but the truth is, these are almost all of Darryl's making. He also harms his cause by publishing unchecked anecdotal reports, as authenticated fact. When challenged with accurate information, he responds with conspiracy theories.
There might indeed be 511 registered EVs in Canada - but does that include those electrified aircraft loading ramps ? At any rate 511 vehicles are not a lot to show for thirty years of promotion.
The 511 are road registered EV vehicles. Not aircraft tugs or Neighbourhood vehicles. Not a lot? Sadly, I doubt weather there are 500 road registered EV'S in Australia either.   
Furthermore I doubt any of those vehicles were available to the general public through conventional retail channels


I'm not sure what you mean by conventional retail. Certainly, Vectrix and other Two-wheel EV's would be purchased 'retail'. Otherwise, the Ford/Smith Light commercial EV's are fairly conventional, but the overwhelming majority would be like Australia, individual conversion's. What's your point?   

My issues with Darryl are the accuracy and validity of his reported claims. On examination these prove to be inaccurate and wild distortions of the truth.

This allows even crazier supporters to publish disinformation quoting Darryl as an expert source.

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Post by T2 »

What's your point?
I guess I was being facetious in the face of despair that our govt is not doing enough. There have been demo models driving around the nation's capital for what seems like forever. The public gets an invite downtown to one of these dog and pony shows. You get to take a trip in the latest thing, then the whole project gets rolled up and re-announced a few years later.

It seems to be a fleet of disinterested govt employees that are prevailed upon to road test the prototypes as part of their job. The powertrains I saw used manual transmissions and unsophisticated controllers in a cargo van. One contract didn't even allow for regen braking. And the money for the study ran out before the on board data logging software could be debugged.
It just seems that little progress is made for the taxpayer funds expended.
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Post by procrastination inc »

the greens EV policy

http://greens.org.au/sites/greens.org.a ... arsweb.pdf

THE GREENS PLAN
Without a more substantial and linked up commitment to EVs Australia will be left behind.
So the first step in driving the shift to electric vehicles is to make such a shift a national priority. The Greens would
make the electrification of transportation a key framework for government policy development.
We have a vision for Australian transportation based on zero-carbon energy and sustainable mobility. Investments in
more and better public transport, high speed rail and electric vehicles can transform the way we move and transport
goods in a clean economy.
As a first step towards fulfilling that vision we propose three new measures to jump-start the drive to electric vehicles
in Australia.
1. Modify the eligible expenditure guidelines for the Green Car Innovation Fund to enable the support of electric
vehicle development and electric vehicle infrastructure development;
2. Allocate $75 million in assistance funding to the Green Car Innovation Fund for the roll out of electric vehicle
infrastructure in all capital cities;
3. Immediately place on the Council of Australian Government’s agenda the development of a policy framework
for EV including:
• implementation of consumer incentives for electric vehicle ownership including, registration rebates or cash-backs,
tax credits as well as significant targets for government fleets;
• putting in place a regulatory environment that supports electric vehicles such as regulation of deployment and the
setting of competition and policy standards;
• maximising energy opportunities through appropriate regulation, such as requiring “smart” charging sourced through
renewable energy;
• industry policy that develops the electric vehicle sector in Australia, such as battery manufacturer and servicing,
engineering and manufacturing of vehicles or parts in Australia.
This plan is substantial and ambitious, but it is what Australia needs if we are to secure our future. If implemented we
will see the way we move transformed and it will make a major contribution to making our cities and regional centres
more sustainable and liveable.
This plan will be complemented by further announcements on public
transport, bicycles and other areas of transport policy.
The Greens will release a statement outlining budget savings measures
to fund all new policy announcements in the coming weeks.
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Post by marcopolo »

procrastination inc wrote: the greens EV policy


So, having read the Greens policy, and even accpeting that much of it is impractical rhetoric, I gave them the benefit of the doubt that their hearts were in the right place, and cheerfully enquired which of their candidate owned an Electric car or Vectrix?

Answer : Zero

Does the Greens party have an EV as a staff car?

Answer : Zero

Oh well, never mind do any green party officials own an EV?

Answer : We think one or two may have something electric, maybe a bike?

How about any Party members?

Answer : We'll have to take other questions.....


Sigh, what is it about politics that kills idealism?
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Post by buzzook »

marcopolo
I thought perhaps I might raise the issue of your last post regarding The Greens apparent lack of regard for 'walking the walk' as opposed to just talking the talk. Clearly, it matters to wjhom you address your inquiries!

In response to MY inquiry on this subject I received today a reply from Senator Christine Milne's Hobart-based campaign officer, Imogen Birley, who informs me that not only do both Bob Brown and Christine Milne drive a Toyota Prius as their official govt wheels, Imogen herself has purchased a second-hand one which is her own personal transport in Tasmania.

She also informs me that, contrary to marcopolo's apparent frustration, The Greens in Federal Parliament have had to fight tooth and nail with the bureacrats in charge of the govt's car fleet in order to get the Prius approved for purchase as a govt fleet vehicle.

Apparently, the bureacrats lack of willingness to do so is based on the resale value of vehicles at the end of their lease.

And while a Prius might not be the "EV of choice" for many on this forum, as wheels for the Greens leaders it does have a kind of logic to it that is inescapable.

Why OTHER politicians have not taken advantage of this is, I suspect, because the bureaucrats have made a special consideration for The Greens Senators that they will not make for others, but it's worth asking the question of, say, Penny Wong or Greg Combet, who are allegedly operating in the environmental area.

Hope that clears the air somewhat! :)

[Disclosure: I am not a member of the Greens nor do I have any particular axe to grind - I just knew marcopolo was wrong...!!] Image
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Post by Electrocycle »

A Prius isn't really an EV though - it just has a 30% efficient engine instead of a 25% efficient engine, while carrying a bunch of extra weight.
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Post by buzzook »

Yeah, well, like I said, given the place and the problems - and the fact that no commercially viable purely-EV is yet available on the Oz new car market, the choice of Prius or even Camry Hybrid is probably the best that they can do.

And yes, I know the Blade Electron is a 'new car' but it is not sold or serviced by a mainstream dealer network, and that's the benchmark that Bob and Christine had to reach in order to get SOMETHING that wasn't a gas-guzzling "Aussie-made" dinosaur.

My original post was SPECIFICALLY in response to marcopolo's inference that no-one in The Greens even TRIED to "walk the walk".

And no matter your definition or personal preference - multinational, factory or home-built; hybrid or EV; SLA or LiFePo; that at least a couple of our pollies were keen enough to do SOMETHING that they went into bat against the whole inertia of the Dept of Finance (who oversights the car leasing) I think says something a little more positive our Green Senators, their staff and their attitudes than marcopolo's somewhat dismissive "zero".

Clearly Bob and Christine driving Prius hybrids is greater than the 'zero' interest implicit and stated in marcopolo's criticism.

And not that I'm having a go at marcopolo - far from it - I just knew he hadn't asked the right person! Image
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Post by marcopolo »

buzzook wrote: Yeah, well, like I said, given the place and the problems - and the fact that no commercially viable purely-EV is yet available on the Oz new car market, the choice of Prius or even Camry Hybrid is probably the best that they can do.

And yes, I know the Blade Electron is a 'new car' but it is not sold or serviced by a mainstream dealer network, and that's the benchmark that Bob and Christine had to reach in order to get SOMETHING that wasn't a gas-guzzling "Aussie-made" dinosaur.
Wrong, and wrong! The Blade Electron is serviced by Hyundai's 150+ dealer network for all the Hyundai components. The fact that the Greens do not support the Australian produced Electron, (or when it was available Vectrix) in favour waiting for a Govt funded, Prius Hybrid, speaks volumes for the hypocrisy of Sen Browns political commitment.

Sen Brown's Green's applauded the Government's purchase of the fully imported iMev, in preference to the Australian Blade, on the peculiar basis that the car industry is basically pollutant and imev being imported was somehow better for the Australian environment!
My original post was SPECIFICALLY in response to marcopolo's inference that no-one in The Greens even TRIED to "walk the walk".

Clearly Bob and Christine driving Prius hybrids is greater than the 'zero' interest implicit and stated in marcopolo's criticism.

And not that I'm having a go at marcopolo - far from it - I just knew he hadn't asked the right person!


Actually, I have nothing against Prius,(I own, and drive, it's big brother)but, I am the first to admit that the environmental benefits of hybrids are largely tokenism.

I am not however a politician claiming public office by virtue of my support for environmental causes! The Green party does, just optioning a prius for a govt-funded car is not 'walking the walk' , just more hypocritical tokenism.

But hey, the Greens are no different from the many who will eagerly sing the praises of the tiny, and very expensive iMev, while sneering at the locally produced Blade Electron.

I am continually frustrated at the countless "who killed the EV" crowd, arguing loudly that they would buy an EV with a range of 100klm if only the auto companies would let them, but then when Ross Blade actually makes such a vehicle, do nothing to support him.


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Post by buzzook »

marcopolo
Look, your flaming response to my quite reasonable and reasoned post is a clear indication of "EV fanaticism" rather than the application of rational thought and logic.

So what if the "Hyundai compomnents" are serviced by the "130+ Hyundai dealers"? I seldom take my ICE-powered Corolla to a mechanic for something which is not ICE-related. Annual service etc etc. Getting locally available warranty service on the major component in the driveline should not such be a big ask.

My point stands: there is NO national dealership or distribution network supporting full-EVs - not in the way the term "dealer network" and "fully supported" are understod by the auto industry and the buying public.

Also, Ross' cars are bloody expensive and, at the end of the day, based on a now discontinued Hyundai that wasn't much of a "car" to start with.

I take it you own a Camry Hybrid ("Prius big brother") - so why didn't YOU support Ross by buying one of his vehicles??????

Whatever the reason, and I'm certain there will be one, and it will be reasonable and rational, it entirely excuses the efforts of Greens staff and parliamentarians for using the same or similar, or even quite different excuses. Most of the time, for most people, they just aren't yet a practical proposition in some way or another.

By and large, there is no real "push" in the industry or anywhere else to rid the world of the ICE - so while all our infrastructure is focused on servicing, running and enabling the use of ICE-powered vehicles, that is what people will still be buying. It's a classic self-sustaining feedback loop.

Personally, if I lived in the city, and could afford one, I'd buy a Prius, or possibly a Camry, simply and solely because I could get EVERY component serviced by my local Toyota dealer. And living in the city is the only way they are acceptably viable. Ross' car can only travel 60km, the Prius and Camry similar mileages on EV alone. Ok for city commuting, but useless for any longer distance AS AN EV. We both know, or at least I know and you should, that both Toyota's "Hybrids" are effectively ICE-powered on highway cycle.

That Toyota's hybrids are not being bought by the public (24% of sales to public - SMH today) is largely because of the added cost (not perceived as "value") and the Rumsfeld factor - to many unknowns.

If you've never tried to get anything past the rubber-stamping bureaucrats in Canberra (or Macquarie St, or Collins St, wherever) then you have NO concept of just how difficult that can be and is. The fact that the Green have managed to do so is a feat of some magnitude and should be applauded as such.

Ross makes very well made, niche-market vehicles, that are slightly over-priced, dificult to service, not widely understood, and only available from one outlet in Australia.

Ross vehicle's don't sell more because he does not have a multinational corporation behind him to support and push his product.

The Greens support of the Mitsubishi iMiev is of the same nature as their support and advocacy for the Prius and Camry Hybrids - they are supported by major manufacturers - will be better accepted by the public than something built by "Ross Blade from Castlemaine". No offence to Ross, from what I've read of his product it is very well made. But $48,000 for a Hyundai Getz??? That was $12990 drive away from Hyundai with a pretty frugal 1.5L ICE??? Sorry, that 's more than both the Camry and the Prius, which are fundamentally better packaged and supported.

But do NOT think I don't support your assertion that more should be being done to support Ross and people like him - I do - it's just that a simple reality check tells you that it will never amount to anything more than a niche - in the same way that members of AEVA have been converting mass-market ICE cars for the past 40 years has always been seen as a "niche". If Hyundai had agreed to service the EV components and treat the Blade asa factoey vehicle - different story. Why didn't they?? Risk management. Why is Albanese buying 40 iMievs rather than 40 BEVs? Risk management. That is the reality for large corporates and governments.

It's only now, with advances in battery technology that they even BEGIN to look "marketable". For example, what "normal" person would think a US-built EV-converted pick-up truck, with the tray-bed totally full of SLAa, towing a 6x4 trailer also totally full of SLAs was a sensible, logical or reasonable way to get from point A to point B a few hundred clicks away?

Even the builders of such pioneering conversions acknowledge that, while they work and are better for the environment, they aren't especially practical.

And that is the nub of my argument, and support of the Greens approach - they are being practical, pragmatic and realistic.

It may not be "good enough" in your eyes, but it is at least better than what the OTHER parties are doing or offering to do. Haven't seen P Wong or P Garrett getting out of a Prius lately, have you? Never mind the Mad Monk or any of his fruit loopy minions??? No???

So at least acknowledge credit where credit is due - someone, somewhere in Parliament is trying to make a stand by insisting on NOT using solely ICE-powered vehicles. And those someone's are members of the Greens.

And before you re-ignite the flamethrower, let me tell you what I want to see happen. I've been investiging EV-assisted Velomobiles. To my mind, what we need is a totally new class of vehicle, something that can be registered (like a motorcycle or moped, without all the ridiculous "safety" crap that adds unecessary cost to personal transport and is largely useless over 40km/h anyway (don't get me started on ANCAP...).
What I thnk would be heldful wpould be to free up the exisint proscriptions on lightweight vehicles (because after all, the lighter they are the further they'll go as an EV and the smaller the battery pack and smaller the motor etc etc...

We need an "ELV" category added to the ADRs - "Electric: Light Vehicle" whic could include EV-assist Velos, trikes, and aso small EVs like Reva, Corbin and the forthcoming Murray T27, for example.

We'd have to accept that they would only offer the same accident/crash protection as a motorcycle (ie: f*** all) but would enable cost-effective kick-starting of useable and workable EVs.

That in turn would prompt the big players to compete with vehicles that were lighter, more efficient as EVs and safer, in order to grab market share from "normal" people.

So yeah, I'm a fanatic, too, okay???? :) :)
marcopolo
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Government EV Policy

Post by marcopolo »

What to make of such a response?

Most of your information is out of date, or hopelessly biased. Blade does not use 'obsolete', or discontinued, $12,000 Hyundai Getz. As the Hyundai range introduces new models so does Blade. The model used is a brand new 5 door hatch glider supplied by Hyundai ($17000). Blade is priced at $42,000 with a guaranteed 'buy back', and from a fleet management analysis, represents considerably better value than the iMev at nearly $72,000.

The iMev drive train will only be serviced at nine specialised service outlets.

IMev is smaller, with basically less range under normal driving conditions, than the Blade Electron.

Blade is not 'only available' from ONE outlet in Australia.

Blade and iMev are not hybrids, and are therefore limited in range However, having driven both, I can honestly state that the Blade Electron is the superior vehicle.

Your prejudice against the South Korean vehicle is out of date and disputed by every major independent motoring authority.

I do own a Blade, and this year will replace two more employee driven commuter vehicles, with Blade Electrons.

Like you, it's not practical for me to own a PIEV, since I travel long distances. My hybrid is a Lexus 450h, but I am the first to acknowledge the tokenism of any environmental benefit.
buzzook wrote: marIf you've never tried to get anything past the rubber-stamping bureaucrats in Canberra (or Macquarie St, or Collins St, wherever) then you have NO concept of just how difficult that can be and is. The fact that the Green have managed to do so is a feat of some magnitude and should be applauded as such.
??? What exactly have the greens accomplished? What the Greens are responsible for the Prius?
The Greens support of the Mitsubishi iMiev is of the same nature as their support and advocacy for the Prius and Camry Hybrids - they are supported by major manufacturers - will be better accepted by the public than something built by "Ross Blade from Castlemaine". No offence to Ross, from what I've read of his product it is very well made. But $48,000 for a Hyundai Getz??? That was $12990 drive away from Hyundai with a pretty frugal 1.5L ICE??? Sorry, that 's more than both the Camry and the Prius, which are fundamentally better packaged and supported.

Sigh, the Prius, Honda, Camry etc, are Hybrids. The Blade Electron is a PIBEV!! In Japan the iMev Has a very cheap ICE version. How on earth can you compare a Hybrid with a PIEV?
But do NOT think I don't support your assertion that more should be being done to support Ross and people like him - I do - it's just that a simple reality check tells you that it will never amount to anything more than a niche - in the same way that members of AEVA have been converting mass-market ICE cars for the past 40 years has always been seen as a "niche". If Hyundai had agreed to service the EV components and treat the Blade asa factoey vehicle - different story. Why didn't they?? Risk management. Why is Albanese buying 40 iMievs rather than 40 BEVs? Risk management. That is the reality for large corporates and governments.


Hmmm..so, I see, if I understand you correctly, you are advocating that the Australian government should use Australian taxpayers funds to advance the cause of Japanese imports at the expense of Australian innovative' manufacture? You justify this on the basis of 'risk management? Well, the three biggest fleet management analysis ts disagree. Hey, even the staid old RACV disagrees.   
It's only now, with advances in battery technology that they even BEGIN to look "marketable". For example, what "normal" person would think a US-built EV-converted pick-up truck, with the tray-bed totally full of SLAa, towing a 6x4 trailer also totally full of SLAs was a sensible, logical or reasonable way to get from point A to point B a few hundred clicks away?
Sigh, Smith/Ford have been marketing a range of 1, 2 , 3 tonne hybrids for 6 years, alongside a range of 8,10, & 12 tonne PIEV trucks for 7 years.
And that is the nub of my argument, and support of the Greens approach -they are being practical, pragmatic and realistic.
Wrong again, it was labour who carried out the liberals initiative to build hybrid Camry's in Australia. Labour not only encouraged the the intuitive, but gave Toyota an enormous subsidy.

The offer of a Prius in was not a Greens initiative, but an option included in the Commonwealth fleet by the previous Liberal government who also concentrated on converting the fleet to LPG.   

As to the rest of your proposition that road safety technology in motor vehicles is "ridiculous crap", it simply beggars belief!!

The comparison with motor-cycles is interesting. Consider this; two-wheel motor vehicles constitute only 3-4% of road users, yet account for more than 48% of all serious road injuries! If your absurdly dangerous proposition were adopted, third party insurance would unobtainable.






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