Manufactured electric vehicles

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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Nakey
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Post by Nakey » Wed, 17 Mar 2010, 19:35

Hi all,

So we went and saw a Nissan leaf today. Looks good, probably drives well and has an 80kw peek motor or in other words a 9 inch ADC at 156v.

has a range of 160km so I’m assuming if the vehicle weighs <1200kg and if they shut the car off at 70% DOD we have our selves a nice little 25kW battery pack give or take. Which when you think about it is pretty chunky and in its self as lithium polymer weighs somewhere between 170-190kg.

So pretty standard stuff yet deceptively well packaged within a manufactured vehicle just like all the others.

in light of recent events something has come to mind and it may strike you all as slightly odd and as I gazed upon the leaf's interior then recalled the imive's I thought to myself where’s the mechanical emergency battery disconnect button? Then I thought to myself prius doesn't have it either!

And lastly I thought if we have to install a "big red button" (and it should be big and red and say stop) why don't they have to do it?


    

marty11
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Post by marty11 » Thu, 15 Apr 2010, 00:27

hmmm glad you saw the leaf..thanks for your comments on it.

Wanted to go look but was working too far away. 2012 maybe ?

Cheers.. Marty
Holden Volt - June 2013
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antiscab
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Post by antiscab » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 11:16

Nakey wrote:
And lastly I thought if we have to install a "big red button" (and it should be big and red and say stop) why don't they have to do it?


the big red button requirement came from within the AEVA, to manually cut power to a series DC traction motor with both a failed motor controller and failed primary disconnect method (usually contactor controlled by a combination of controller, inertia switch, leakage detector etc)

This was to serve as a second form of disconnect (shame nothing rated to enough breaking current is available for systems above 96v)

That requirement is being loosened (or rather improved?) to allow substitute forms of secondary disconnect, but that is another story.

with the AC setups all OEMs use the only failure that can result in a run-away motor situation is a software failure (since a powerstage failure results in braking, and the twin hall system faults out).

im not sure what the manual disconnect method of the IMEIV or the leaf is, but i do know for the prius there is the power button as a last resort (restarting after a "power button" shutdown is a bit tricky from what i hear).

the "power button" reset sorts things out in case of software failure.

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

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Post by Nakey » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 18:40

It’s true, a prius can be shut down by holding the power button however let us look at the problem like this:

How many people do you think know that if you hold the power button on a computer for 2 seconds it shuts down?

Now how many people do you think know the same method applies to a prius? Hell I only learned about this function after the first prius went runaway.

Now how many people do you think know that if your traveling at 150kmph and hold the power button of a prius down you will lose powersteering and brakes?

Our standard for mechanical shutdown should apply to ALL VEHICLES and not just ev's or hybrids meaning every vehicle on the road should have a big red button that looks like this and is positioned like this:


Image

and it should do as it says.

In an ev sever the traction pack from the controller. And yes it can be done mechanically its called a breaker.

In a hybrid sever the traction pack from the controller, sever the ignition coil or coil pack from the engine and sever the fuel lines from the engine.

For a petrol or diesel well, you get the idea.

Primarily this system must be intuitive so there’s no doubt just like the picture above. Because if you’ve been around electric cars as long as I have you’ll learn this. Experienced vehicle operators will get into an ev, switch it on and try to crank the engine just like when the vehicle had an ice. These same people will then ask if the vehicle is on. They are not stupid they are just like everyone else and they expect a vehicle to act like every other vehicle they’ve driven does hence my rant.

Secondly this button must not effect steering or breaking and it should be easily reversible.

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Post by evric » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 19:22

Push or Pull?
Prius Plug-in Conversion: http://www.evplus.com.au ...Holden Barina EV: http://www.evric.kestar.com.au

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Post by woody » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 19:38

Having driven my fair share of barely functioning petrol automobiles (mostly my own) - most cars have this feature. In a manual car, it's called the clutch, in an auto it's called "Neutral". As a backup there is also the ignition - but this also has the risk of locking the steering.

Having experienced different types of stuck throttle (Floormat under the floor-hinged pedal => part throttle) and stuck to the floor (friction > return spring => full throttle), the brake is my first reaction, followed by the clutch, then the ignition stops the engine revving to destruction under load.

I would certainly not claim that I am a typical driver, however.
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

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Post by Nakey » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 20:16

woody your right but like i said how many people know how to do this?

in driving school we learn how to give way not how to deal with an out of control car. And i got to tell you, this year alone i've be beeped at for comming to a full stop at a stop sign 4 times.

case and point:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/video.aspx?v ... 03eca5a302

all the emergency buttons I install are push and they can't get in your face any more than the above picture.


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Post by EV2Go » Mon, 19 Apr 2010, 20:34

woody wrote: Having driven my fair share of barely functioning petrol automobiles (mostly my own) - most cars have this feature. In a manual car, it's called the clutch, in an auto it's called "Neutral". As a backup there is also the ignition - but this also has the risk of locking the steering.

Having experienced different types of stuck throttle (Floormat under the floor-hinged pedal => part throttle) and stuck to the floor (friction > return spring => full throttle), the brake is my first reaction, followed by the clutch, then the ignition stops the engine revving to destruction under load.

I would certainly not claim that I am a typical driver, however.
Never really counted them up before but I just came up with three different experiences of unintentional WOT that I can remember.

1) Old posty bike that had the throttle stuck wide open and the ingition was controlled by toggle switch. What made it worse was the kickstart was broken and it had to be bump started. I caught up with that one at the fence.

2) Old VH Valiant that pre driving years drove around our property. The kick pannel down near the drivers feet was warped from water, got the pedal stuck under it while WOT.

3) Old UC Torana with SB Chev, return spring came off the Holley

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