Red's Go Green

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
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Post by stab » Thu, 02 Apr 2009, 19:37

Sun 4th April, SBS Dateline at 8.30pm

From the SBS website....

Can the world's biggest polluter become the world's biggest producer of plug-in electric cars?

This week Video Journalist Adrian Brown travels to China, where an electric hybrid car is in the pipeline which could change the face of motoring.

The 'Build Your Dream' corporation, or BYD, is producing a car which runs up to 100 kilometres on a fully charged battery from a household power outlet.

Critics say it's just another eco-friendly hybrid. But BYD disagrees, claiming no other car has been able to travel that many kilometres on battery power alone.

It's already got the backing of billionaire philanthropist Warren Buffet, who's paid $US230 million for a nine per cent stake in the company.

Find out more this Sunday, 8:30pm on Dateline.

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Post by Johny » Thu, 02 Apr 2009, 20:02

Thanks stab. This must be the show that most of us missed.
Maybe it was on in W.A. last week?
Just to be absolutely sure we get it this time, Sunday is the 5th.

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Post by Mesuge » Thu, 02 Apr 2009, 23:51

SBS Dateline is fantastic production, don't forget their famous expose of Plasma boy's "White Zombie" and the EV scene of California&Pacific Northwest in the U.S.

"Electric cars in California" /aired 14 Sep 06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXv6sO52xFY


PS is anybody going to record the new "BYD" show?
http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/600028
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Post by JD » Fri, 03 Apr 2009, 01:13

I saw the promo for this last sunday. Thanks for the reminder. I remember hearing some comments from a guy who saw the BYD car displayed at the Detroit auto show earlier this year. He mentioned and i keep seeing in stories associated with these cars the use of an Fe battery pack. Other stories about it refer to them as Lithium Iron Phosphate. Has anyone else heard of LiFePO4 being referred to as just Fe?
It sounds very steampunk to have you car running on Iron Batteries.
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Post by evric » Fri, 03 Apr 2009, 02:00

LiFePO4's are 42% Iron (Fe) and 3.4% Lithium !!!
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Post by woody » Fri, 03 Apr 2009, 03:47

Mesuge wrote: SBS Dateline is fantastic production, don't forget their famous expose of Plasma boy's "White Zombie" and the EV scene of California&Pacific Northwest in the U.S.

"Electric cars in California" /aired 14 Sep 06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXv6sO52xFY


PS is anybody going to record the new "BYD" show?
http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/600028
Cheers Mesuge - I watched all 3 parts of the Dateline story - wish I'd seen it at the time :-)

I'll be recording BYD in glorious SBS HD and will be making it available to anyone who PMs me.
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Post by Mesuge » Fri, 03 Apr 2009, 04:05

Hi Woody, thanks for your reply, btw. that 2006 Dateline is definately among the top educational/outreach videos about EVs ever made, personally it's my #1 because it covers so much ground in few minutes and with passion. I think there must be floating some higher res version of it on the internets too.. Sadly I couldn't find it on SBS archive anymore, but there used to be a page about this programme.
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Post by woody » Mon, 06 Apr 2009, 22:36

Um, it looks like glorious HD didn't work for me, so I didn't record it, did anyone else get it? The podcast is downloadable From SBS
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Post by Johny » Mon, 06 Apr 2009, 22:51

I recorded it and watched it a little later last night.
Sum up.
I believe the car is a plug-in hybrid (this wasn't totally clear as they only showed one brief graphic of an internal combustion engine and mentioned extra range). Claim is 100km range on batteries alone.
It was a medium sized car.

The journo described the interior as something similar to "plain".
It did not look terribly aerodynamic.

A price of $32,000 was bandied around but it was unclear what currency - since they were speaking about the US market a little earlier I would assume US$.

There were no technical details other than the company making it used to be a phone battery company and they bought a motor company.

A brief look under the bonnet showed what was probably the controller and some other large cover plate - I didn't see the petrol motor but I may have blinked.


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Post by Simon » Mon, 06 Apr 2009, 22:51

I recorded it, not in HD though only SD.
Here is a link to the story on the Dateline website.
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It looks like BYD reverse engineered the 1st Gen Prius, stuck a more powerful Electric motor in, smaller capacity ICE and more batteries?

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Post by cardboardtrent » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 01:55

Here is BYDs website for the F3DM from the story.

More intereting though is their E6 which is fully electric but looks to be not yet available outside of China, impressive specs though 400km range, 160km/h, 50% recharge in 10 mintes, 2000 cycles for battery life.

Here's a link that shows the E6 at the Detroit motor show 2009

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 02:52

BYD E6 Oz in 2012 ?

I want a rule... if you can't get it here by the end of 2009 then stop telling me about it !! Image
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Post by Johny » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 05:09

Gee it looks b#$%^&y good. 100km/h in less than 8 seconds it's no slouch and even has a nice looking dash.
It does weigh over 2 tonne which means LOTS of batteries and a high price.
This would challenge the Miev except that the price range will be utterly different IMO.
Shame dateline didn't at least mention this one. I was disappointed in the hybrid, but this...

Edit: In retrospect - it's too heavy. I regard the Ford Territory at 2.2 Tonnes as stupidly heavy and this is only 180kg lighter at 2020kg.
Last edited by Johny on Tue, 07 Apr 2009, 19:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by coulomb » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 16:08

Johny wrote: It does weigh over 2 tonne which means LOTS of batteries and a high price.

Later: it's too heavy.

I guess that's what a 400k range EV looks like with current technology. And the car manufacturers are convinced that people won't buy cars with less range than petrol. They may be right - about Joe average, if they treat it the same as a petrol car. But I'm sure there's a market for lower range, lighter vehicles.

Maybe they need to get you to sign a disclaimer that says "I realise this only has a XXkm range, and won't attempt to sue the manufacturer if I run out of charge".
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Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 16:58

I still think they missed the boat by doing a Hybrid.
The 3 cylinder looks like a Daihatsu design if the body
is the old Toyota one. It could also be a Honda revamp.

Either way 2000+kgs is OTT.

They should have just gone all electric got rid of the engine.
100K range is more than anyone needs for commuting.

The extra space without engine and box could allow for double
the range of batteries.
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Post by Johny » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:26

David - you may have missed the link that cardboardtrent posted about 4 back. It points to the full EV they are developing/have developed. That's the 2020kg one. The hybrid weighs 1540kg which is still a tad heavy but similar to Prius.

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Post by Dan Frederiksen » Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 23:19

I don't think it's just a reverse engineered prius since the prius parallel hybrid arrangement can't drive fast on electric alone due to the way it works. the prius coupling is not suited for EV operation.

I couldn't find info on how it's arranged in the BYD. maybe it's a straight serial arrangement. as it should be.
but the way they describe it makes it sound like it can also apply the combustion engine to the wheels at the same time as the electric motor.
maybe the front end is like a prius and then pure electric drive on the rear wheels. that would be quite stupid and unimaginative of them but who knows.

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Post by Dan Frederiksen » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 01:23

well I've changed my mind. it does seem to be a prius adaptation :)
they even use the names MG1 and MG2 for the two motor/generators just as prius documentation does. another label says power split which also fits the prius tech. but they must have added a clutch extra somewhere or some other way to let the main electric motor drive the car at high speed without the normal prius limitation

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Post by antiscab » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 02:15

Dan Frederiksen wrote: well I've changed my mind. it does seem to be a prius adaptation :)
they even use the names MG1 and MG2 for the two motor/generators just as prius documentation does. another label says power split which also fits the prius tech. but they must have added a clutch extra somewhere or some other way to let the main electric motor drive the car at high speed without the normal prius limitation


the prius motor is limited to low rpm by the DC bus voltage. winding the motor for a higher rpm (ie lower voltage at present rpm) or operating the controller off a higher DC bus increases the speed at which you can operate electric motor only.

still no need for clutch.
as transmissions go, its an impressive solution to the requirement of control of engine speed independant of road speed (means you can eliminate the induction losses on the engine).
redundant for EV only use though

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Post by antiscab » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 02:15

Btw, welcome to the forum Dan.

cheers,
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 02:51

? Mk1 prius was voltage limited.
Mk2 uses voltage boost to 500V and I can assure you is still pulling hard at 160kmph. Image

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Post by antiscab » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 03:08

acmotor wrote: Mk2 uses voltage boost to 500V and I can assure you is still pulling hard at 160kmph. Image


haha, was this an andrew test?
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 04:01

Image he claimed scientific research. (Vehicle made in Japan you understand)
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Post by antiscab » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 04:10

ah of course
so which ran out first? the battery or andrews courage? :D
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Post by Dan Frederiksen » Thu, 09 Apr 2009, 04:31

antiscab, 160km/h without the ICE?

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