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Red Suzi

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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woody
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Post by woody »

Oh, when you get bored, wire it for 100V and chuck in your FC302 controller. Should get you to 170kph (8500rpm - I hope they balanced it for you!)
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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

Correct coulomb.
Also the 11kW wouldn't fit on the kitchen table !

Woody, stop tempting me re the FC302.
I don't have the battery power anyway. Image

Shaft is so smooth. It came with a balance certificate from VEEM (NATA cert.) showing original unbalance of 650g.mm DE and 227.5g.mm NDE with final 30g.mm DE and 35g.mm NDE at 6000RPM on 24kG rotor.

Lame video... Image
you tube

Johny, do you have the comparison numbers down to 10kmph as well ? The take off is my concern at 200V with the 5042 current limit.
80 kmph was a real slow wind up in 415V but got there. I really felt 60 was the workable speed and would hold this on a 10% grade.

I'm doing a repaint now and will drop it back in ASAP. Data will flow !
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Johny
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Post by Johny »

Bottom one is Star/delta switching at 36 km/hr

Speed     10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80     90    100
415V       0.9   1.9   2.8   4.5   7.4   12.7 24    630     -    -
200V       1.3   2.6   3.9   5.3   6.6   8     9.7   11.7   14.5   19
346/200   0.9   1.8   2.8   3.9   5.3   6.7   8.3   10.3   13.1   17.6

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Johny
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Post by Johny »

For the visually inclined:
Image

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

All that result for a wiring change ? Nice.
Where is the 3rd graph ??? is scrolled down but to no avail !

Johny,
Did you factor in 25 minutes to stop and re-connect in delta ? Image
(It is OK, I have a contactor ready for the job) Image
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Post by Tritium_James »

Wow, 650g.mm is WAY out of balance!

As a reference, we had the rotor in the Porsche motor balanced to 31.5g.mm and 40.5g.mm at each end, for an 18.5kg rotor.

So if they've got yours to 30 and 35g.mm, that's pretty nice! Should do 12krpm no worries :)

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Post by Johny »

Sorry....
346/200 Star/delta as per figures a few posts above.
Image

Edit: 200 not 20-0
Last edited by Johny on Tue, 25 Aug 2009, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

Yes, it was a bit live at 4000RPM before but on the rubber engine mounts you didn't notice. My main problem was with the aged section of tailshaft/spline I used to the transfer case. I'll have to revisit that now !

12kRPM might result in schrapnel as the rotor goes ballistic ? That book you suggested previously "induction machine handbook" suggests a safe operating area for SC rotors.... maybe 10kRPM on this one ?

I'm glad to see the balance numbers look OK by you TJ. I was thinking 0g.mm was a good number and was disapointed at 35 !

Johny, now the same for both in low ratio 10.5:1 as in, does 173V low etc help ? I shall respond with live data soon .
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Post by Johny »

Johny wrote: Bottom one is Star/delta switching at 36 km/hr

Speed     10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80     90    100
415V       0.9   1.9   2.8   4.5   7.4   12.7 24    630     -    -
200V       1.3   2.6   3.9   5.3   6.6   8     9.7   11.7   14.5   19
346/200   0.9   1.8   2.8   3.9   5.3   6.7   8.3   10.3   13.1   17.6
10.5:1 Ratio (Star/Del is 300/173 switching at 26 km/hr)
Speed     10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80     90    100
173V       0.9   1.8   2.7   3.6   4.6   5.9   7.6   9.7   12.8   17.7

173V
Image

Edit: Removed impossible stuff
Last edited by Johny on Tue, 25 Aug 2009, 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Johny
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Post by Johny »

acmotor wrote:I shall respond with live data soon.
What? Have you got a spanner in one hand and the mouse in the other?
That 10.5:1 at 173V looks pretty good to me. 8000 RPM at 100 km/hr though. Image

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

Am I reading that correctly ? 173V is star, as is 346V. How can I get 300V star ?
What current limit are you using for VLT5042 ? Accel seems too good ?

(picks up spanner again... Image)
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Post by Johny »

Whoops!
(Reads back to motor winding diagram)
Discard 300V rubbish. The 173V figures are still valid.
I'm going to edit my posts to remove all signs of silliness.
No-one need ever know.

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Post by Johny »

acmotor wrote:What current limit are you using for VLT5042 ? Accel seems too good ?
Max motor current = 97.6 Amps. That's another interesting facit of this experiment. Will you get to 97.6 Motor Amps? If not a number of preconceived ideas start to tumble. Like "bigger controllers give more power when overvolting littler motors". (This is the "big one" for me - actually just one of the big ones - but it's important).



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Post by Lectrickery »

acmotor wrote: Wahoo, emotor is back from winder ....

Image


Yee Gads....... Red Suzi is beeing fitted for a FLUX Capacitor Image

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Post by Tritium_James »

A flux capacitor is really an inductor (think about it!).

A non-lossy one (ie superconducting) is a really good match for burst energy storage for an EV, you get high current as you start and the current drops off as you get faster and use it up, which is exactly what you want.

Supercaps, on the other hand, are the wrong way around - high voltage at low speeds as you get going, and the voltage drops as you get faster and use it up.

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Post by Richo »

acmotor wrote: Shaft is so smooth. It came with a balance certificate from VEEM (NATA cert.) showing original unbalance of 650g.mm DE and 227.5g.mm NDE with final 30g.mm DE and 35g.mm NDE at 6000RPM on 24kG rotor.


Do you think that the rewinders just sent the rotor to veem for a balance when it was apart?

I guess it might be a tad harder if I took the whole motor to veem for a balance. Image

ABB spec 4500RPM on my motor which should be 130km/hr in the BMW.
So I probably won't worry about it at the moment.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

TJ, and warp drive won't be series DC then ?

Inductive energy store, rather than electrostatic. (a box of magnets)
Good logic there.
Richo wrote: Do you think that the rewinders just sent the rotor to veem for a balance when it was apart?


Ummm, of course.

The higher the RPM you ask for, the smaller the g.mm number on the Balance Quality Grade as I understand it.
Personally I would have liked to consider balancing 'on the bearings in the motor housing'. I bit hard to make adjustments though.

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Johny
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Post by Johny »

When I asked Qin Wei about maximum continuous RPM and rotor balancing they told me it was OK to 4000 RPM and was balanced to V5.
When I asked what V5 meant they responded with:
"V5 is 0.05m/m"
Anyone know how to interpret that?

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

Don't know if this helps....

balance grades

Veem say G2.5 was used for my rotor.

Mind you, there is still a small vibration at 6000RPM when I ran the motor before refitting , but generally quite sweet.

Image
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Johny
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Post by Johny »

Thanks acmotor. I did a search earlier and saw a few sources of ISO 1940 balance specs. I don't know what they are on about with "V5".
I ran it to 3000 RPM last week and there was no sign of any nasties.
I didn't want to go over that until I see what encoder they stuck in it.


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Post by acmotor »

OK, emotor is back in.

We just did a run connected as 200V series delta, with Danfoss setup as 11kW 200V 50Hz 46A 1450RPM.
(I had tried 400V 100Hz 26A/43A 11kW and 22kW 1450/2900RPM but control was loopy)
VFD would not AMA at any of these settings. I'm not understanding here.

Take off torque is reduced as expected and yes the VFD goes to 97 A.
But the pull from ~20kmph to 70kpmh is so solid. Basically twice the 'performance' of before. Man, if you had the controller and batteries for that pull 0-120kmph you'd be smiling ! Image
I didn't get data as laptop battery went flat and USB interface gave troubles. I'll try again later.
It was hard to read data from the Danfoss LCP as it kept flashing "torque limit/current limit". Image

Just as a test...selecting low ratio gives a suitable takeoff torque.

I've never seen the motor so cool. Even with the 'pilot'Image driving. You can't get the motor to pullout with the limited controller current (I have 97A .. would need 150A to pullout).

Accelerator response is a bit more twitchy than before. It feels like a bigger motor. I've still got a shudder at start off if you stab the accelerator. Can't get a handle on that one yet. May have to fit the encoder again.

Star delta start is going to be essential with this (now seems small) controller. Or there is always the FC302 ! That would be certain to end the SLAs though. Image    
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Johny
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Post by Johny »

Sounds great. There's got to be a few wrinkles or it wouldn't be fun!
Great to here that the Danfoss is at current limit. VERY good news.
Torque control would be good to try too - but you know that - so much to try, so little time (in a day).

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

Yep, there's nothing like taking it to the limit !

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor »

BTW, if you spin the emotor to 6000RPM with transfer case in neutral the hit coast (press ES etc) it takes 2 1/2 minutes to stop. I guess it is spinning freely !
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Post by woody »

top work acmotor.
I would think your motor in star parallel (200v) would AMA with: double current half voltage at 50Hz 11kW or double current 400V 100Hz 22kW 2900rpm ...
Not clear from your post that you tried both.
Is there an Aussie/motor winder terminology for 12 terminal for others trying to get it done?
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