What an EVSE provides

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What an EVSE provides

Post by coulomb » Sat, 17 Nov 2012, 04:58

Acmotor suggested that a separate topic would be appropriate for discussing what an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) actually provides. I haven't seen a topic on this, so I've started this one.

Here is what I think it does:

1) It is always on a dedicated cable for EV charging only, and there will be a dedicated RCD/GFCI (Residual Current Device, also called a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter or safety switch). But you can get the same from a 15 A GPO (General Purpose Outlet, i.e. power point), if suitably wired. The same applies only more so for a 20/25/32 A GPO; see later posts for details. [ Edit: the portable plug-in EVSEs are an obvious exception. ]

2) You get a connector that is designed for charging continuously at higher currents. But a 15 A GPO will operate continuously too. Presumably you can get good quality plugs and outlets, if you are concerned about eventual heating discolouring of the plug or outlet. [ Edit: for example, EVTV.me sell this marine rated unit for the American market; I bet one of Clipsal's extensive range of outlets is similar for our market. ]

3) You usually get a high charge rate, e.g. 3 kW or more. But the 3.6 kW available from a 15 A GPO is enough for many conversions.

4) You get a little extra safety, because no power conductors are energised without handshaking from the vehicle to the EVSE. But you get almost the same safety, I think, from a 10 A or 15 A plug with the now mandatory insulation of the first ~ 10 mm of the non-earth pins.

5) You get the ability to set the maximum charge current, though this is usually limited to about 4 coarse levels, like 6 A / 15 A / more. But you can get finer current limit capability with a smart charger, like a Manzanita charger, or an Elcon/TC Charger with CAN bus interface, and no doubt many other chargers. [ Edit: this page lists 14 levels, and other sources seem to suggest continuously variable limits (with a two-slope linear relationship between PWM ratio and current limit). ]

6) You get a pretty display, which may tell you how long the charge has been running for, how much energy has been supplied this charge, and so on. You might be able to get much of that information (granted, not as pretty) with a suitable power monitor that the EV charger plugs into, and that monitor plugs into the standard 15 A GPO.

7) You get an earth leakage detector, and possibly an over-current circuit breaker. But all power outlets in Australia have earth leakage on them now, and it's no trouble to use a dedicated circuit with the appropriate circuit breaker. I suppose that for opportunity charging you don't necessarily get a circuit breaker with the best current rating (i.e. a current limit just beyond what the vehicle charger should draw).

8) There is a "diode check" function that means that even if you drop the charge plug into the mud, and it happens to make the right resistance that would otherwise energise the mains connections, it will still not energise those connections. But that's really another part of 4).

So for some $800 to $3000, possibly including installation, you get very little in addition to what a 15 A or even a 10 A GPO gives you, and some of the remaining advantages you can get with a $100 power monitor in addition to the GPO.


Here let me list the benefits of an EVSE (e.g. J1772 conforming) that you can not easily get with a dedicated high-current GPO:

a) The control pins have a "last to connect and first to disconnect" design. (I hope I got that right; it's usually expressed the other way around, presumably referring to the power connections.) So if you accidentally or deliberately remove the plug under load, the control pins will disconnect first, which will cause the power to be disconnected electronically or by suitably rated contactors, so the power pins won't disconnect or connect under load. This can prevent an unpleasant arc on disconnect, which could also damage the connector (damage to a GPO socket may not be visible), which could cause heating and a fire hazard when used later. This is obviously more important for public charging stations, where you have no control over who used the station last, but also has some value at home.


What features am I missing?

An alternative to purchasing an off-the-shelf EVSE is making your own, though there is the problem of how to connect it safely and legally if you don't happen to be an electrician. Perhaps in low-regulation countries like the USA this is not such an issue. This site has pictures, circuits, costings, and links to sources for several home-made EVSEs:

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Open_EVSEs

You can use the navigation options on the side to find other examples and information.


[ Edit: also added the "Here let me list... " section. Mention 20/25/32 A GPOs. Added items 7) and 8).]
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What an EVSE provides

Post by weber » Sun, 18 Nov 2012, 00:29

Here are some photos, courtesy of bladecar, that show his 32 amp power points, which I mentioned in the thread
Holden Volt - Charging Cable Limited To Six Amps.

These are in pairs on two dedicated circuits, hence the markings "P1" and "P2".

Image Image Image

This makes it clear that you don't need an expensive box on the wall, even for charging two EVs at once, at up to 32 amps each, on a single-phase service (although bladecar mostly only charges them at 10 amps, at different times, and off-peak).

It makes sense for any EV owner to install a dedicated circuit for charging. EVSEs are a valid choice, but I can see no reason whatsoever for them to be mandatory.

And I see no reason why you shouldn't also be able to charge at a (non-EV-owning) friend's place, at up to 10 amps from any power point, without an in-cable EVSE. It seems the most important consideration here is the quality of the terminations inside the plug and socket on the charging lead.

Bladecar's 32 amp power points are a HPM part. Their part numbers are on pages 22, 60 and 94 of this catalog.
http://www.hpm.com.au/Uploads/HPM_Aussi ... lowres.pdf

HPM part number of 32 A power point:
787/32 (standard)
XL787/32 (excel)
XLP787/32 (excel gloss)
They differ only in aesthetics and mounting.

HPM part number of 32 A plug:
106/8
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What an EVSE provides

Post by acmotor » Sun, 18 Nov 2012, 02:14

Just confirming price of 32A power point...
32A PP + 6mmsq cable x m + 32A RCD + electrician labour = ? can someone put a real world price on this ? Nice option for lots of power.

I'd always install the RCD at the power point so you can see its status / reset if required. Preferably with a light to show power available and RCD tripped / fault condition. An ethernet connection to enable data logging and send status email / fault report. (unless running carwings on leaf already)
(This location of RCD means there will be an MCB in the meter box as well.)

Only DIY EVSE units can actually adjust the charging current AFAIK.
The EVSE tells the EV charger what max current the EVSE is installed to charge at via a 1kHz PWM signal. This is actually continuously variable from ~6A to EV's max (3.3kW ~14A on iMiEV) but up to 80A by the J1772 standard.

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What an EVSE provides

Post by g4qber » Wed, 20 Feb 2013, 06:29

Brian's leaf pulls 18A on circontrol fbox. I couldn't believe my eyes at first.
this box had a replacement part as it died.
the circontrol unit is supposed to supply MAX 16A, this is the older model.

current model on
http://www.e-station.com.au/homecharge.html is 32A

It has just dawned on me that perhaps e-station's replacement part belongs in a 32A unit.


my fbox behaves normally when charging the leaf.
would be interesting to see if acmotor's 2x fboxes also behave the same.

looks like the volt is not the only commercial EV with out of spec issues.
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What an EVSE provides

Post by g4qber » Fri, 24 May 2013, 15:36


http://evseupgrade.com
$AUD1027
16A

http://charge-amps.com
$AUD749
16A

holden's EVSE is $AUD350
10A max


EVSE in kit form
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
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What an EVSE provides

Post by acmotor » Fri, 24 May 2013, 15:54

acmotor wrote: ....
Only DIY EVSE units can actually adjust the charging current AFAIK.
.....


I thought this until g4 bought one of the Swedish Charge-Amps J1772 'in plug' EVSEs.
This unit can select 6A, 10A, 16A by user at the plug before charge starts. Rather useful.
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What an EVSE provides

Post by jonescg » Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:31

How on earth does it change the AC supply to limit current? Surely only the car's on-board charger can limit the impedance?
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Post by antiscab » Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:27

there's communication between the charger and charge station

The charger backs off when told to

If the charger tries to dray more than the charge station commands, it disconnects the charger.

I also wonder how often the power limit can be changed - could be useful to track solar system output, minimising export
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What an EVSE provides

Post by acmotor » Fri, 24 May 2013, 20:08

The J1772 coms using the mark space ratio of the 1kHz pilot tone from the EVSE to the EV can be dynamically changed to instruct the EV to draw from from 6A to max ability of onboard charger. The EVSE may have more capacity (say 32A) but if the EV is told it can draw more current than it's onboard charger then it just defaults to its own max (maybe 16A), no harm done and the EVSE does not consider this a fault.

Basically the EVSE is saying how much the EV can draw and the EV works with what the EVSE is offering up to the EV's limit.


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Post by g4qber » Fri, 24 May 2013, 20:46

Can anyone explain why the 16a fbox charges the imiev at >10a. But the volt at 10a max?

And the leaf at 18a on Brian's fbox
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What an EVSE provides

Post by coulomb » Sat, 25 May 2013, 05:35

acmotor wrote:I thought this until g4 bought one of the Swedish Charge-Amps J1772 'in plug' EVSEs.
This unit can select 6A, 10A, 16A by user at the plug before charge starts. Rather useful.

So this is a "plug into the wall" type EVSE. Since you might be plugging it in to a non-dedicated outlet, 6 A might be a sensible limit. Or you might have a 16 A dedicated circuit, or you might just want 10 A to look like an electric jug.

So the "current limit" is really a statement by the EVSE as to what it is capable of. It is up to the charger to respect that limit.

I didn't realise that the limit was dynamically adjustable. I suppose that makes sense. Suppose you have a dual head public charger outlet with a 32 A supply. You could offer 32 A to the first EV that plugs in. If a second EV plugs in to the second outlet, you could adjust the first to 16 A before you allow any current to the second, and tell that second EV that the limit is 16 A also. If the first EV finishes its charge an hour later, you can then tell the second charger that the limit is now 32 A. That allows two EVs to share a limited resource in a fair and optimal way.

At last: a real advantage for an EVSE. But it seems to me that it doesn't apply at home, unless you have more than one EV. But even then, you can just have two dedicated 32 A outlets, like BladeCar. So this advantage is limited to public charging stations with more than one charge outlet, or a home where the EV(s) could draw more current than is available (maybe you are on a SWER service, and current is severely limited, say).

SWER: Single wire earth return, used in some remote power systems. The current available may be limited by the conductivity of the earth (as in soil, not a yellow/green copper wire) in your area.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 25 May 2013, 05:53

Viewing the 1kHz pilot signal with an oscilloscope from the various EVSEs would most likely answer that question ?

These seem to be typical numbers for the J1772 system pilot 1kHz sent by EVSE.
Duty Cycle Max Current
10%      6A
20%      12A
30%      18A
40%      24A
50%      30A
60%      36A
70%     42A
80%      48A
86%      55A
88%     60A
90%     65A
92%     70A
94%     75A
96%     80A
So in the range of currents used by iMiEV, Leaf, volt it is 0.6A per % duty cycle.
This is rather a fine setting and perhaps the variation between EVSEs and EVs (likely to be a few %) is the cause of the differences observed ?

Note that the pilot signal sets a current but the max kW is a function of the charger setup so there will be a different behaviour depending on whether the linkup is EVSE charger current limited (pilot signal both in generation and interpretation) or EV charger kW limited.

So maybe the Volt goes to max kW when it is told by EVSE there is 'a lot' of current available. Maybe its fine interpretation at >10A is different to other EVs ?

Doesn't Patrick have a test box for J1772 connections ?
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Post by E-STATION » Sat, 25 May 2013, 06:18

The standard GPO is not rated for long use high drain devices like electric cars which can be plugged in for up to eight hours a day every day. Some electric car owners have found that the extension lead plug welded to the GPO after a long charge and the car was only pulling 10 amps.

High drain long use electric devices like cooktops, stoves and A/C units must be installed on their own circuit and hard wired back to the switch. No plugs allowed. See AS3000 for more details.

The same standards are likely to be applied to electric cars. If the GPO starts to arc on a hot summers night the house could burn down and start a bush fire.    

http://www.standards.org.au/OurOrganisa ... _study.pdf

http://www.aemc.gov.au/Media/docs/Victo ... 4697-0.PDF

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Post by acmotor » Sat, 25 May 2013, 06:30

IMHO

An advantage of entering the world of production EVs and a charging connection standard like J1772 is that you can understand the debate, decicion and design that has gone into making EVs more fit for public use.
It is not perfect yet but is a far cry from the blind faith of earlier charging systems that applied mains power right into the EV without water tollerance or confirmation of earthing at either the mains or EV side and where users can handle powered on cables.
For instance, an EVSE will stop a user from charging from a generator that does not have a neutral-earth link or an EV chassis that is not earthed.

A lot of though has gone into adding handshake, intelligence, safety and environmental tollerance into EV charging by way of J1772 and EVSEs.

I would note that the charge-amps 'in J1772 plug' EVSE is potentially less safe that a wall type EVSE since mains is present in cable and connector (though not J1772 pins) all the time. At least the J1772 plug used is IP44. Still a lot safer than an extention cord plugging in an EV conversion.
True, user order of switch on can help with safety, but the idea is to make things public proof !

The good thing is that even an MX5 can be retro fitted with an international current best practice charging connection. Plugs, sockets Tx and Rx circuits are all available though you could make up circuits to comply with the standard easy enough. There are open source projects on the net too.

Cost ? After the expense of a devoted circuit, rare plugs, rare sockets, RCDs etc, why not go the safety and standard and go to J1772. Other EVs will then be able to use your charging facility as nearly all EVs in production have J1772.
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Post by weber » Sat, 25 May 2013, 19:33

So, because a new thread gets started, I have to debunk the same old lies all over again?

See viewtopic.php?title=holden-volt-chargin ... 238#p39802

There is nothing in AS/NZS3000 that prevents any type of appliance from being operated via a plug into a GPO, provided that GPO has an appropriate rating for the appliance. There is actually a section (4.7.2) that insists that any freestanding cooking appliance must be connected via a plug and socket, although it only applies in New Zealand.

The standard GPO is rated for 10 amps continuous.

Portable cooktops, stoves and A/C units are available in Australia up to 2400 watts continuous consumption and they are perfectly legal to plug into a 10A GPO. Yes, the same standards should apply to electric cars.

Problems of softened or plastic-welded plugs during EV charging are due to poor terminations in the flexible leads, between their flexible wires and their in-line plugs and sockets.
See viewtopic.php?title=holden-volt-chargin ... 238#p39892

No one has so far cited a case to me where this has led to anything more than softening and charring. I understand this has also happened with an EVSE. This has nothing to do with any limitations of GPOs.

Neither of those reports you link contain anything that disagrees what I say above.

The first report says:
Advocates of electric vehicles in Australia rightly point to the fact that one of the key advantages of a future move to the use of electricity for passenger cars is the fact that much of the recharging infrastructure is already in place – in the form of the millions of GPOs already in existence around the country.

This observation is only correct for Level I vehicle recharging. This form of recharging is relatively slow and many industry stakeholders suggest that electric vehicle consumers will likely demand faster charging rates (at least to Level II) as the popularity of electric vehicles increases (Although the average car is parked for 22 hours per day and for most drivers rapid charging may not be required very frequently).

Most Australian households are fitted with single-phase electrical circuits that are supported by a 70 amp supply. The accommodation of faster charging rates can be facilitated by single phase 15A and 32A outlets at relatively small cost. Whilst some customers may install 3 phase power, it would be fairly costly to do so.
And although the drafters of the second report apparently did not consider any EV owner or EV owner organisation to be worthy of consultation -- their list of stakeholders interviewed contains EV "Service Providers" Charge Point and Better Place along with a host of Elecricity Distributors and Retailers, Government Departments and one Electrical Contractor -- the worst they could say against GPOs is this, in a footnote:
Although EVs can be recharged from a standard 10 amp plug, we understand that for a range of reasons including safety, the recharge rate from a 10 amp plug will be inadequate for anything other than extremely low usage. In most circumstances, customers will require 15 amp connections.
No explanation of what the supposed safety problems are. Just "we understand". In other words, we're just telling you what our "stakeholders" told us.

If your interest is really in safety, rather than in manufacturing an artificial scarcity, so you can sell more of your "service", then start campaigning for some standards (based on actual research) for the construction of extension leads used for charging EVs from GPOs. [Edit: Or perhaps all that's needed is the enforcement of existing standards for all extension leads.]
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Post by Jeff Owen » Sun, 26 May 2013, 02:01

acmotor wrote: Other EVs will then be able to use your charging facility
Other EVs already use his charging facility on a regular basis.

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 26 May 2013, 05:21

It is not a lie to say that an EV charging standard like J1772 with EVSEs has considerable thought, design and thus features in operation over a standard 3 pin domestic plug. These have been outlined many times.

EVSEs are so much more than the 10A continuous for GPOs argument.
I hope that is understood.
I hope we can always use 10A sockets (with an EVSE) as a backup.
The features of an EVSE will likely be mandated in the future just like RCDs, smoke alarms, seat belts etc.

Why do you resist the current best practice of most commercial EVs ?

Is is simply cost ? You realise that the world will move on despite you.

Jeff, other EVs with seriously (particularly on a world basis) not common 3 pin plugs/adapters I guess you mean. Hey, I commented that your super sockets were a good access to power.... but hardly a world standard.
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Post by weber » Mon, 27 May 2013, 00:50

acmotor wrote: It is not a lie to say that an EV charging standard like J1772 with EVSEs has considerable thought, design and thus features in operation over a standard 3 pin domestic plug.
I never said it was. I have nothing against J1772. I think it's a fine idea. I think I made it very clear that I was referring to lies about GPOs.
EVSEs are so much more than the 10A continuous for GPOs argument.
I hope that is understood.
Of course.
I hope we can always use 10A sockets (with an EVSE) as a backup.
The features of an EVSE will likely be mandated in the future just like RCDs, smoke alarms, seat belts etc.
This is where we part company. You want us to be limited to 6 amps from a 10A socket and forced to use an EVSE. Why?

And please don't say "safety". You know by now that the melting plug problem is a problem of badly made or badly maintained leads, not a problem of GPOs, and J1772 does not solve this problem. See below.

Image
For more see: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... bcb5f3b726
Why do you resist the current best practice of most commercial EVs ?
Why do you misrepresent what I'm saying?

The only thing I'm resisting is people who appear to be thinking, "Now that I've bought a commercial EV and the manufacturer made it impossible for me to pull more than 6 amps from a 10 amp GPO, I think everyone should be prevented from pulling more than 6 amps from a 10 amp GPO."

And I'm resisting people who appear to be thinking, "Gee, I'd sell a whole lot more EVSEs, both inline and on-wall, if it was made illegal to charge an EV at more than 6 amps from a 10 amp GPO".

And I'm resisting people who falsely claim:
(a) it's unsafe to pull anywhere near 10 amps continuously from a 10 amp GPO,
(b) that its already illegal to do so with other types of appliance,
(c) that the AS3000 wiring rules don't allow this,
(d) that various reports commisioned by government or standards organisations recommend preventing this.

I want the confidence of knowing that:
(a) I can continue to legally get a 10 amp charge from any 10 amp GPO, e.g. at a friend's place, and
(b) anyone can continue to legally get a 10 amp charge at my place from my 10 amp GPOs.
Also a 15 amp charge from a 15 amp GPO etc.

Why is that so hard to understand?

I won't need an EVSE for this because my chargers don't pull more than 10 amps each. I have two 10 amp chargers so I can get a 20 amp charge from two 10 amp GPOs on two different power circuits at anyone's home. However, I may well install J1772 in the MX-5 in future so I can also take advantage of commercial charge stations.
acmotor wrote:Other EVs will then be able to use your charging facility
Jeff Owen wrote:Other EVs already use his charging facility on a regular basis.
acmotor wrote:Jeff, other EVs with seriously (particularly on a world basis) not common 3 pin plugs/adapters I guess you mean. Hey, I commented that your super sockets were a good access to power.... but hardly a world standard
No. It's bladecar who has the 32 amp GPOs (which also accept common-as-dirt 10 amp plugs). Jeff is talking about my EV charging facilities which so far consist of nothing more than 10 amp GPOs, not even on dedicated circuits. Jeff uses these facilities on a regular basis. If he was restricted to 6 amps on these he would not be able to use his EV to visit me. Instead of 6 hours, it would take him 10 hours before he could return home.

On occasion I've had two volunteer-helpers charging their EVs from my GPOs at the same time (on different circuits). Had I also tried to charge the MX-5 at the same time, the worst that might have happened would be a tripped circuit breaker.

I found it particularly insidious in this report posted by E-STATION
http://www.aemc.gov.au/Media/docs/Victo ... 4697-0.PDF
when they say (page 11):
There is a possibility that EV charging will follow a ‘plug and play’ type model, where a customer plugs the car into an appropriately wired socket and recharges their vehicle. In this business model, no specific charging infrastructure is provided at the customer’s home and the car’s energy requirements are part of the home’s electricity load, as with any other appliance. At this stage proponents of this business model have not emerged, but we understand that it may be feasible.
May be feasible!? Of course it's feasible. No proponents!? I did mention that they completely failed to interview a single EV owner or EV owner organisation for this report.

Business model? Ah. Could it be that they are saying it may be feasible for an EV "service provider" to extract money from people who use their own GPOs!?
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 27 May 2013, 04:02

weber wrote:
You want us to be limited to 6 amps from a 10A socket and forced to use an EVSE. Why?
Talk about off on the wrong rack !!!! Yes, you should use the features of an EVSE. You don't deny them. I see them as being expectations of the EV industry.

You know very well how domestic wiring is arranged in terms of loads.
You cannot assume that 10A will be exclusively continuously available from any 10A GPO.(definitely without a more than general public understanding of your house's individual wiring). It is not a question of the GPO current rating more that of the other loads on the circuit if it is not a devoted circuit. You know that.

In a move to make the Volt less likely to trip the circuit on a randomly chosen GPO, GM Volt defaults to 6A charge. It can be selected on the vehicle touch screen to change to 10A (and this actually goes to around 15A if fed by a 15+A EVSE). I don't like the volt because it is a hybrid, but there are a few good features. This one should keep you happy. It appears the volt can only put 10kWh in its battery from a power point anyway.
weber wrote: ..........However, I may well install J1772 in the MX-5 in future so I can also take advantage of commercial charge stations.


There is light at the end of the tunnel after all !

BTW, Honda and retro for iMiEV and Leaf is a simple thermal switch add-on to the J1772 socket to shut off charge if pins are getting hot.
The $2 NC thermal switch simply opens the proximity switch circuit (12V and a few mA) until pins cool and then starts charge again. i.e. not a leave you stranded shutdown, just a cool off time.

Some other minor charging connectors/systems also have temperature checking.

By hardwiring the wall end of the EV charging system e.g. hardwired EVSE, and having the J1772 as the only user/regular/abused/in the rain connection to be regularly made, this reduces the issue of badly made/maintained cables and connectors. At least until the J1772 gets resistance in the contacts. Not bullet proof but better than some charging connections.

Oh, I do get the drift that other people's claims are being attributed to me at times.
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weber
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What an EVSE provides

Post by weber » Mon, 27 May 2013, 16:01

acmotor wrote:
weber wrote:
You want us to be limited to 6 amps from a 10A socket and forced to use an EVSE. Why?
Talk about off on the wrong rack !!!! Yes, you should use the features of an EVSE. You don't deny them. I see them as being expectations of the EV industry.
Well gee, when you put it like that ... Silly me. I thought it would be OK to have my charger pull 10 amps from a GPO at my mum's place, and if a 20 amp breaker tripped, wind my charger back to a lower current, or try a GPO on a different power circuit, being one that was still working when the first one's breaker tripped. But since you see the features of an EVSE as the expectations of the EV industry, I should just accept that I can't have more than 6 amps, and so I can't afford to visit my more distant family or friends in my EV, unless I can find an EV Service Provider that I can divert to on the way, and sit there by myself and just wait while it charges. Or if I don't like that, I can always pay an EV Service Provider to install an on-wall EVSE at my mum's place, and all my friend's places. It's all clear to me now. Thanks acmotor.
You know very well how domestic wiring is arranged in terms of loads.
You cannot assume that 10A will be exclusively continuously available from any 10A GPO.(definitely without a more than general public understanding of your house's individual wiring). It is not a question of the GPO current rating more that of the other loads on the circuit if it is not a devoted circuit. You know that.

Yes! Whatever was I thinking! My mum could have my EV and two 1200 watt electric heaters plugged into her kitchen and then try to boil the kettle to make me a cup of tea, and TRIP THE BREAKER! Oh, the humanity!
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What an EVSE provides

Post by jonescg » Mon, 27 May 2013, 16:24

Seems to me all of the 'safety' features of an EVSE can be put together with a Jaycar enclosure and a 15 A breaker. Which is currently the bare minimum for all household circuits anyway...

Yeah, I'm with Webber on this. The EV is no different to any other 2200 W appliance. If you plug it into a GPO and it trips the households breaker, then turn the charger power down a bit or go and find another GPO. They wouldn't put "10 A MAX" on every outlet in the house unless they reasonably expected someone to plug a 10 A appliance into it.

Although, at least on the Volt you can override the piddling 6 A limit and push it up to 10 A. If 10 A charging from a GPO was completely prohibited (which it isn't) then I think they are doing a disservice.
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What an EVSE provides

Post by acmotor » Mon, 27 May 2013, 17:05

Still off on the wrong track guys.

"they" will never be able to ban 10A GPO charging but surely folk in the EV know will be opting for something superior already ?

Yeah, circuit breakers will trip... when there is a fault. Let me say that again FAULT !!!! They are not intended to protect against poor electrical practice/system design. In some places, tripping an RCD or CB is reportable and the FAULT must be investigated. CJ, read the UWA policy for instance.

If EVs go around tripping circuits then it will be such bad PR. Don't you get it ? "those evil EVs shut down the power in my house" media field day.

You will not always have the access to the circuit breaker to reset it, you may shut off some important equipment (maybe your computer while you are typing a reply on the forum) or leave a house having tripped the fridge / freezer power circuit.

I understand the desire for fastest charging but isn't it just a case of early days of EVs when the charging infrastructure is still emerging ?

Do think of the big picture and longer term. At some stage a 10A GPO will simply not be the port of call for EV charging. Embrace the future !
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What an EVSE provides

Post by Jeff Owen » Mon, 27 May 2013, 18:45

acmotor wrote: IMHO

At least the J1772 plug used is IP44. Still a lot safer than an extention cord plugging in an EV conversion.

Not true. The standard 3 pin plug on my car is rated IP66. At least I could keep charging while washing my car.
Last edited by Jeff Owen on Mon, 27 May 2013, 08:47, edited 1 time in total.

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What an EVSE provides

Post by jonescg » Mon, 27 May 2013, 19:34

acmotor wrote:

If EVs go around tripping circuits then it will be such bad PR. Don't you get it ? "those evil EVs shut down the power in my house" media field day.

You will not always have the access to the circuit breaker to reset it, you may shut off some important equipment (maybe your computer while you are typing a reply on the forum) or leave a house having tripped the fridge / freezer power circuit.


*Any* appliance drawing more than the rated current for that circuit will trip the breaker. Air conditioners are already widely recognised as the main cause of blackouts in hot weather, but their sales are far from down as a result of bad PR.

Why make specific provisions for EVs but not every other appliance which is capable of tripping a circuit? That's the thrust of the argument here. GPOs are great for charging EVs at their rated currents without the need for additional safety features. The EVSE is simply making the existing safety features more redundant.
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What an EVSE provides

Post by bladecar » Mon, 27 May 2013, 22:39

ac, I don't see any need to worry about adverse publicity for EVs due to thrown switches until even a few people can see past their wallets and go past the exhaust gases to something cleaner.

As an ev owner yourself (or driver, maybe), you now know what it is like to sit at the light, or in traffic, and listen to this alien sound of rumble rumble rumble coming from beyond your vehicle, and find yourself saying to yourself, why??

You can push for evse's if you like, but you are just wanting to set up a commercial network early, when we have all had enough of such entities. If the presence of evse's would appear to make a significant difference to what people buy, then it would be much harder to argue against your evse enthusiasm, but the reason for this totally eludes me.

If almost seems as if you want to gold-plate a system that doesn't exist yet, which will make the establishment of customers so much less likely, than wait until the customers are established and then have them complain about the cost of gold-plating the system (evse's).
The people who would react against occasional events regarding thrown cbs are the people we have least to worry about, in my view.

If you want to encourage ev ownership, put the fewest obstacles in their way. This means, plug in wherever, because the plugs are everywhere.

Let us not let industry make plugging in difficult for their own benefit.

Let us not allow the established industry, which is obviously doing everything it can to stall or remove the great cars that are electric and battery, to (put in your own word here) us up because they ALLOW you to charge at 10 amps by selecting it, and then magically decide that they won't ALLOW you to do it with a required UPGRADE to the software.

Chrysler have made a battery car which they will not sell, according to their MD, or someone similar, because THEY CAN'T MAKE MONEY WITH IT.
Hooray, I say, because I don't want their product.
They are not going to make money from me.

Neither do I want, necessarily, their EVSE, although their presence would be ok.

No, we do not need EVSE's. Yes, we do need 10 amp charging from any old plug around the place.

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