the i-MiEV experience

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
g4qber
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the i-MiEV experience

Post by g4qber » Thu, 12 Apr 2012, 05:55

1. can't see speedo in noonday sun
2. indicators don't turn off on certain gentle corners unless there are more than 1 person in the car
eg. ocean reef onto wanneroo rd right
ocean reef onto joondalup drive left
3. no light in rear cargo area
4. autolights get fooled by shadows across freeway
5. too easy to select high beam instead of flash; would be good if it was push to beam

bottom line wait for version 3
fed back to Mitsubishi customer service, points 1-4

good for oldies
1. high seats easier to get in out of.
2. many oldies tend to travel below the speed limit
hence travelling at optimal 50km/h would be matching their driving style
3. EV bays at Barlee St & the Avenue feel like ACROD bays
feels like reserved parking
4. sat nav warns u of going over the speed limit

regenerative braking is great
rear wheel drive is great
speedo 3km/h more than real speed, according to GPS

tyres seem to drop to 34PSI & stay there
36PSI recommended in manual
front types narrower than rear, similar to smart cars, probably $$$ to replace
but this is similar to sports cars
eg. ferrari

things missing
1. cruise control
2. day night mirror
3. auto down only on drivers window

seem to get static electricity shocks from time to time

default beep on sat nav really loud, I've turned this off

100km/h = 90km range
50km/h = 160km range
Hungarian record = 220km @ 50km/h with 41 PSI tyres
http://youtu.be/zqSLNX3WlHY

just like Simon Hackett 501km @ 50km/h in Tesla
http://youtu.be/Eaxl7i2wn-Y

although charger has 15A, socket, in the manual it says 10A & on the charger it is printed 10A
bought Amp-fibian
http://ampfibian.com.au/store/rv-02/

from Camec
http://www.camec.com.au/
to charge on any 10A socket
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 11 Sep 2013, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by IVI » Fri, 20 Apr 2012, 04:29

If Hacket was driving his Tesla around in (nearly FLAT) Adelaide, this might explain the 500 Km range, but I'd like to find more details of that experiment.

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Post by IVI » Fri, 20 Apr 2012, 04:31

Re: The iMiEV, has anyone at Mitsubishi been advised of your list of issues with it?

I assume the car would still be under warranty. Which of those issues has the maker "fixed" (or at least tried to fix).

Let's have the -whole-story, please... from anyone who knows any part of it.

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Post by antiscab » Sat, 21 Apr 2012, 17:38

The 500km drive for Simon Hackett was on the Darwin to Adelaide run.

never done it myself, but I hear its relatively flat country out there

I measured the current drawn from the mains at 9.4A @ 237V

Personally I would just get the 15A plug changed for a 10A one

Nice car when I test drove one, the other half just wouldn't let me buy one, she wanted a new house instead :(

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Post by g4qber » Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 01:29

http://www.fastmotoring.com/index.php/2 ... -malaysia/

from the home page

I haven't been following these links until today.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 08:13

iMiEV auto light sensitivity is dealer adjustable according to the workshop manual. (M.U.T.-III ETACS system)
or maybe...
aftermarket ETACS for mitsi and iMiEV ?

"Sensitivity for auto lamp
Lighting control sensor sensitivity (illumination intensity)
more insensitive
Low-low ambient brightness

insensitive
Low ambient brightness

normal
Standard ambient brightness (Initial setting)

sensitive
High ambient brightness"


Static charges are not related to the vehicle, they are clothing dependent.

Cruise control - yep, that would be nice but not a cable puller type.
WAECO in Germany do a CAN bus cruise control for the iMiEV. I'm tempted.
WAECO on ebay
I've emailed them and it is (claimed) correct for iMiEV CAN bus.

Just for fun... (Check out the OHS !!)
iMiEV dyno on youtube iMiEV dyno on youtube

Image

I think I'm reading this right ?
2 runs peak HP 73.2/69.4 at the wheels. (at least the correct wheels are driven unlike leaf or volt   Image )
Now that means 73.2*.746 = 54.6kW and 69.4 *.746= 51.7kW at the wheels meaning the dyno is over reading for all the petrol head egoes that usually use it, or it is being kind to the i (nom.49kW at the emotor), or it normally reads 200HP and is confused by the low numbers Image

Note the flat line all the way ! DC eat your heart out. Image

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coulomb
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Post by coulomb » Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 13:45

acmotor wrote: Note the flat line all the way ! DC eat your heart out. Image

Yeah, that's the flattest I've seen for any vehicle; very impressive. It's almost as if the motor is being electronically limited at low speeds to reduce stress on the pack.

[ Edit: but then again, stress on the pack is low below base speed. Ok, maybe it is being electronically limited to a particular power level. ]

So maybe there'll be after market "flash mods" to enable a little more torque at low speeds, no doubt voiding the battery warranty. But if it was available, I'm sure a bunch of people would use it.
Last edited by coulomb on Mon, 29 Jul 2013, 16:27, edited 1 time in total.
Learning how to patch PIP-4048 inverter-chargers.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 17:01

The LEV50's in the battery pack are rated at 300A discharge.
Presently the controller current is electronically limited to ~150A for the 88 x 3.7V 50Ah cells in the battery pack.
________________________________________________________________________
Lithium Energy Japan
Material Safety Data Sheet
LEV50 50Ah 3.7V Lithium Ion Cell
Section I – Product Identification
Emergency Telephone Number
CHEMTREC:
Telephone Number for Information
Lithium Energy Japan : +81 75-316-3266
Manufacturer’s name
Lithium Energy Japan
1 Inobabacho, Nishinosho, Kisshoin Minami-ku
Kyoto, JAPAN
Date Issued:
June 25, 2008
Date Updated:
Section II—Hazardous Ingredients
The battery should not be opened or burned since the followin
gingredients contained within the product that could be
harmful undersome circumstance if exposed or misuse.
Lithium metal or alloy is not used in the battery.

Cathode:
Lithium-Manganese Dioxide (activity)
Polyvinyldiene Fluoride (binder)
Graphite (conductivity)

Anode:
Carbon (activity)
Polyvinyldiene Fluoride (binder)
Electrolyte:
Organic Solvent (non aqueous liquid)
Lithium Salt

Enclosure:
PVC

Others:
Heavy metals such as Mercury. Lead, and Chromium are not used in the cell.
________________________________________________________________________

The same Y4F1 medesia permanent magnet synchronous emotor in the iMiEV is used in the pikes peak eevo and tuned to 80kW (x3 motors) = 240kW
The emotor is rated at 25kW continuous. 49kW 3,000 - 6,000 1 minute and 180Nm 0-2000RPM.

It is noteable from the dyno that a direct drive emotor system can deliver peak power at nearly all revs with the right controller. Multi-ratio gearboxes also eat your heart out. I guess the EV manufacturers are well on to this.

Yes, scope for re-program options.... but not 'till the warranty runs out in 5 years on battery and 10 years on emotor.

If I had 80kW I'd only use it, shorten the range and life and get into more trouble !
More off the line would always be useful up to the 150A battery current limit. I'll post some vid of the power meter at takeoff.
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Post by coulomb » Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 18:35

I was a little surprised to find this:

Image

"Mitsubishi i MiEV Cargo at 2009 Tokyo Motor Show."

It was off the Japanese iMiev page: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%89% ... 3%BBi-MiEV

I have no idea if it will ever be released as a product, and if it will, if we will ever see it here.
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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 28 Mar 2013, 07:05

Yeah the commercial van market is stange. Look at the Kangoo or the Combo. Design of a box with a lid has limited options. That one looks like a hearse for short people.
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Post by antiscab » Fri, 29 Mar 2013, 10:57

acmotor wrote:
Now that means 73.2*.746 = 54.6kW and 69.4 *.746= 51.7kW at the wheels meaning the dyno is over reading for all the petrol head egoes that usually use it, or it is being kind to the i (nom.49kW at the emotor),


The other possibility is the 49kw is when the battery is at it's lowest but still driveable SOC

I suspect that although the gauge in front of you has a range of -16kw to 48kw, the motor operates outside of that in the extremes (ie stronger regen, and more power on acceleration)

It probably results in less customer service time being wasted on new EV drivers querying why pushing the accelerator to the floor doesn't result in the power gauge going all the way to full scale...

another possibility is the power gauge is actually just battery amps only

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Fri, 29 Mar 2013, 17:25

Agreed on the 'suitable info for cunsumers' suggestion.
antiscab wrote:

another possibility is the power gauge is actually just battery amps only

Matt


The iMiEV workshop manual describes it as 'Energy usage indicator' part of the combination meter. This is fed via the CAN bus so not clear info on source of data.
If it is derived solely from battery current then it is still energy (kW) since W=VxA and the battery voltage is relatively stable for lithium.
If it is (more likely ?) closely related to the mating 'energy level gauge' (tank meter) which is very accurate according to recharge from power point, then it is a good kW indicator.

The regen end limit does seem to go further than the needle though this may be just well integrated with mechanical brake operation.

Given the flat regulated line in dyno graph in my earlier post, and the steady full clockwise 'power meter' position resulting from full accelerator, then I'd opt for kW actually being displayed.
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Post by Hippie403 » Thu, 09 May 2013, 15:31

Looks like Australia is now getting the i-MiEV brake vacuum pump recall:

http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/index ... Id/1047367
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Post by E-STATION » Mon, 20 May 2013, 04:47

Range Test.

Edgewater to Mandurah. 98.7 km.
Average speed 80 km.
Average speed on motorway 100 km.
90 motorway kilometres.
Zero bars left on battery capacity indicator.
3 km left on range display.
Did not go into turtle mode.

Destination Mandurah Caravan Park.

Plugged into 15 amp GPO at caravan stand using Swedish made EVSE that draws current at 15 amps.

Charged up to 100% in five hours and twenty minutes.

Returned to Perth without incident.

http://www.charge-amps.com/um-evse
http://www.recargo.com/sites/9741

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Post by acmotor » Tue, 21 May 2013, 06:16

OK, now do exactly the same tests with the volt.
Both the hypermiling and the at speed limit tests.

I'd be thinking ~55km at speed limit for the volt.
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Post by g4qber » Sun, 26 May 2013, 16:56

missing road

Empire Ave Floreat

Image
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 26 May 2013, 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by PlanB » Sun, 26 May 2013, 18:30

"It is noteable from the dyno that a direct drive emotor system can deliver peak power at nearly all revs with the right controller. Multi-ratio gearboxes also eat your heart out. I guess the EV manufacturers are well on to this."

Anybody know how they tripple up the motors for Pikes peak? I was wondering if 2 motors from wrecks (one on each half shaft direct to a wheel) might be a conversion option in a few years time?


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Post by acmotor » Sun, 26 May 2013, 22:05

You might be waiting around for a while to get three iMiEV motors.

The standard emotor is capable of 80kW peak but is well de-tuned to 49kW to preserve people and the battery pack so that the 5year warranty can be given. (The US gets 8 year)

If modders change the VFD settings it will be interesting, but then I'd use the 80kW just 'coz it was there. Instant silent power ! Image

Perhaps if Mitsubishi just rounded it off to 100kW then they wouldn't need to honour any 5 year warranties 'coz the EVs would all be wrapped around trees. Image

The drive is single ratio but not actually direct. There is still a ratio of 7.065:1 from the emotor to the wheels. This sort of ratio is common to iMiEV, Leaf, Tesla etc.

Edit: found the pic...
Image
Last edited by acmotor on Mon, 27 May 2013, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hippie403 » Mon, 27 May 2013, 04:43

anyone know what this bit of polystyrene foam up near the i-MiEV
accelerator pedal is all about? Seems flimsy stuff to have where it
might get kicked:


http://ariel.its.unimelb.edu.au/~gjo/foam.jpg
Last edited by Hippie403 on Sun, 26 May 2013, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 30 May 2013, 05:51

Technical manual describes it as high density polyethelene foam. Not as crumbly as polystrene foam usually used for packaging.
Maybe it offers some kick protection to the accel. pedal CAN interface from my size 9 1/2 steel cap blunderstones ? or perhaps as a result of crash testing it was decided that bare toes needed a little padding from the parts around the top end of the pedal ?

So basically no idea.

Hey g4, did you get the nav maps upgraded ? I'd like to do that.
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Post by g4qber » Thu, 30 May 2013, 08:08

Got the maps updated but as you can see empire ave is a blank road

Sat nav also takes a long time to lock on compared with the volt
The golf also had relatively no lag in locking onto the says

Imiev can take up to 20 mins to lock on

Interestingly I thought that the iPhone would do better but it also lost 3G signal near bga's house

http://www.aeva.asn.au/content/sat-nav-update
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Post by bladecar » Thu, 30 May 2013, 15:17

I tried hard on this:

Maybe bga just upgraded to 4g.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 30 May 2013, 16:22

Mitsubishi have fitted eclipse brand NAV system.
Eclipse note that antenna should be installed on ground plane at least 400mm from the head unit. MMAL install of antenna is magnetic base ON head unit.
I shifted this as far forward on dash as possible and antenna signals as shown on GPS signal screen increased markedly. Lock in time is shorter now.

What was involved in the map upgrade ? I guess that was outside Mitsubishi, direct to eclipse ??
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Post by g4qber » Sat, 01 Jun 2013, 16:57

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Post by bga » Sun, 02 Jun 2013, 05:19

Tuarn,

I moved the antenna out onto the dash. This made a big difference to the startup time.

I get the idea that the GPS unit doesn't store the ephemerus very well (at all?). It takes a long time to start up after a short time off. A hint may be that the clock freezes until the GPS gets a lock.
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