PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Tjadenw
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Post by Tjadenw » Fri, 28 Aug 2015, 23:49

I Noticed something concerning on my 24 volt 2.4KW model.

It relates to the battery type selection

When selecting Flooded or AGM the solar charging do not kick in and start charging, if is set it to utility charging it starts to charge but does not regulate. Went all the way up to 32 volt ! before I disabled the utility charger.

If I then change it back to USER the solar charger kicks in and start charging and both the utility and solar charger regulates the voltage properly.

Anyone encountered this before ? I do remember that it worked fine on Flooded when a got the inverter a few month's ago.


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Post by solamahn » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 00:05

I noticed that if starting voltage is above 25 then it goes straight into float. This is ok because if you start the day at 25+ you don't need bulk charging because the batteries are fairly full. I tried fld and ac charge starting at less than 25 volt and the battery voltage climbs to 29.2 and stays there. No float. If it works the same with solar charging, it is no big deal as long as your battery bank is big enough. 4048 charging works much better. 2448msx is good. Same charging as 4048 3000w but uses less idle power and house can be wired with 1.5mm.
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Post by Tjadenw » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 01:20

What I meant is if I select Flooded battery as my battery type solar don't eve float, no current flows to the batteries. then when I select utility only charging voltage climbs to about 32 volt ans stays there.

If i then change the battery type to USER solar starts charging as normal and switching to Utility charging the Voltage don't pass in bulk 29.2 and floats at 27.


Is almost as if my AGM and Flooded setting does not work only USER work

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Post by weber » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 01:23

solamahn wrote: I noticed that if starting voltage is above 25 then it goes straight into float. ... I tried fld and ac charge starting at less than 25 volt and the battery voltage climbs to 29.2 and stays there. No float.

What are your float and bulk voltage settings?
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Post by solamahn » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 01:31

Fld sets them to 29.2 and 27 but it never goes to float just stays on bulk. I will connect a 2424msx now to batteries and ac and set o5 fld and leave it overnight. I bet the battery voltage is 29.2 in the morning. This one has 02 43 firmware.
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Post by solamahn » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 01:43

With 02 43 firmware program 26 and 27 do not appear. I just connected it to ac and it went straight to float because start voltage was above 25. Lowered start voltage to below 25, now voltage at 29.2 and current 17A. Voltage will stay at 29.2 and current will taper off but unit will not switch to float.
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Post by weber » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 01:49

Thanks solamahn. That confirms what Coulomb said. For a 24 V system the back-to-bulk voltage (25) is 2 volts below the float voltage(27). So for a 48 V system it will be 4 volts below and therefore almost never seen with LiFePO4 cells.
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Post by solamahn » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 02:01

But a 4048 works different. It always goes to bulk regardless of the start voltage
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Post by solamahn » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 02:04

Just checked the 2424msx and it is now in float mode. Made a liar out of me. Did not do that the other day. Oh well. At least it is charging the way it is supposed to.
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Post by Tjadenw » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 22:54

weber wrote:
solamahn wrote: I noticed that if starting voltage is above 25 then it goes straight into float. ... I tried fld and ac charge starting at less than 25 volt and the battery voltage climbs to 29.2 and stays there. No float.

What are your float and bulk voltage settings?


when in user battery mode Set at 29.2 and 27 v

works perfectly in user mode however setting to flooded the solar charge controller stays in standby and do not start charging.


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Post by coulomb » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 23:35

coulomb wrote: So dockarl, we think we're getting close to repairing the two boards.

All the parts have been installed, and the 2013 (original) board is back up and working. The 2014 seemed to need some more parts, they've been ordered and installed.

We tested the 2014 board today. It powered up fine from the mains, and then from the battery (turning on the AC output switch). But as soon
as it started to run the inverter, things did not go well:

Image

You can see in the circled area that one of the MOSFETs blew off two of its leads. Sigh. Weber and I were both quite confident that everything would work. There must have been more damage to the MOSFET drivers (from the original fault), that was masked by the power supply not working.

This board seems to be in a worse state than when Weber received it initially. I'd say it's not worth the effort to get it working any more.

At least the original board seems to be working fine. We hadn't tested it with the SCC since the repair, so today we hooked it up. It charged, but unfortunately, it was by then quite cloudy, and it's now steady rain. So we never got to see much solar charging; nothing over 3 A. Hopefully Weber can test that over the next day or two.

Let's switch to email to complete this.

[ Edit: reworded a little. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tjadenw » Sat, 29 Aug 2015, 23:47

Just a update on the charging issue

I loaded the PIP-MSX 2-3K_MAIN_0243 firmware and everything back to normal again.
Looks like i had a firmware bug on the 0242 firmware.

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Post by Goofy » Wed, 09 Sep 2015, 04:50

Hi Guys,
I have used my PIP-3248MS for 4 mds. now, and very pleased with it.
Now I have finally reached the end of this long thread, thank you all for sharing your experience.
Like you, I have adjusted several times in the bulk & flood settings to find the best level for my LiFePo4 cells. I have 16 100 Ah Thundesky cells in my house and in my litle EV (Kewet) i have 16 180 ah CALB cells. I use the PIP as charger for the EV, and can allso use both 2 "packs" i parrallel to supply the house.

But to find the the best charging levels for the LIPO´s I need som valid logging data to base my choise from. I am not suppressed with the data you get from WatchPower, so what is the best tool for data logging ?

All the data is available in the PIP, but how do you get it out to Excel ? ? ?

Best regards from Denmark
Image

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Post by coulomb » Mon, 14 Sep 2015, 03:13

Tjadenw wrote: Voltonicpower revealed the 5KVA version of the updated model I mentioned earlier

There is a little info up on the mppsolar site now; there they're calling it the PIP-MSD/MST series (D and T for Dual and Triple MPPT inputs):

http://www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-msdmst-series/

The brochure (catalog) has a higher resolution image of the LCD screen:

Image

As you can see, it's not very clear, but there are three changes that I have found:

1) This one has provision for two PV inputs. It doesn't look like it has room for 3 PV inputs.
2) There is a new module between the panels and the battery, on the LCD.
3) There are some new indicators to the right of the battery.

No user manual as yet, that I have found. "Available starting September, 2015 this series will be ready for mass production."

The comms input looks totally different. Maybe they just ran out of space for the usual sockets to plug into, and that's a cable gland, or a cover over where a gland would go.

Image

There is also the "intelligent slot", which is presumably for paralleling and who knows what else.

[ Edit: I've since noticed the small print on the the catalogue that indicates that the dual MC-4 contacts are only (at this stage) for 24 V and lower voltage versions (MSX series?). So the above image donesn't apply to the new 48 V models. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 15 Dec 2015, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Post by solamahn » Mon, 14 Sep 2015, 03:22

I have a 2424mdx on the way. 2 40A mppt inputs. I will get a 3 x 60A 4048 when they are available.
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Post by hwassie » Wed, 16 Sep 2015, 22:16

Agree with WatchPower useless for data capture.
I am using a Python script to collect data from the inverter and store in a sqlite database.
Basic logic to get data in the attached zip file.
Note: I am not a developer - this was just my attempt to solve my problem.

Collect.zip

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Post by PlanB » Fri, 02 Oct 2015, 21:26

Anybody looked at integrating a wind generator into the equation with a 4048? All the generators online seems to come with their own controller setups, no obvious way to work one in with the PIP?

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Post by fllniks » Sun, 25 Oct 2015, 03:40

I am urgently looking for the firmware for 5kVA MPPT model. Unfortunately, MPP Solar links are no longer working. Anyone has the firmware for this model and can share it with me?

Thanks in advance!

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 25 Oct 2015, 16:00

fllniks wrote: I am urgently looking for the firmware for 5kVA MPPT model. Unfortunately, MPP Solar links are no longer working.
That is most unfortunate.
Anyone has the firmware for this model and can share it with me?
I have two 5K firmware files I have saved, just in case something like this happened:
PIP-MS_5K52.30.rar
PIP-MS_5K72.40.rar

Hopefully, one of those is what you need.

Edit: for completeness, I also have these two SCC (Solar Charge Controller) firmwares as well:
PIP-MS_SCCMPPT1.24.rar
PIP-MS_SCCMPPT4.00.rar

Edit 2: I note that Giant Power have a downloads page now, with 52.30 and 72.40 master (DSP) firmware upload files, as of late December 2015.

Edit 3: As of late March 2016, the firmware is no longer available from Giant Power. I don't understand this "you have to beg for it" mentality. But perhaps people are attempting firmware updates and botching it.
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 29 Mar 2016, 14:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 02:04

Image I just had a go at updating the firmware on my PIP4048 to 72.40

Looks like I Bricked it Image

It connects on port 3 via my USB to serial cable on my laptop and then runs for a little while (most I have had it write is about 400 blocks) then it just fails.

running windows 10 .

This is what I get . the write speed starts off at 200 or so then quickly drops off to 1.
Image

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Post by Adverse Effects » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:22

i would try to find a win XP desktop (not laptop) and give it another go

everything after XP seems to do stupid things with USB that makes it unstable for comms type of things like updating firmware's and even in some cases USB docket printers at times (i part time work on point of sale systems)

i have had to roll back a lot of clients systems and till's that some how get up graded to Win 10 from Win CE but honestly is never the systems owners fault they all say "i didn't click the upgrade button" and i just stand there noding thinking *sure you didn't*
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Sun, 25 Oct 2015, 16:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:40

I will see what i can dig up. I did try running it in compatibility mode for xp.

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Post by paulvk » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:45

I have been following this for number of months.
I have two systems running one has 12 x 240w panels 225AH battery T105s the other at present 20 x 240w panels 1000AH VRLA this one is not finished as its only running with one inverter but will eventually have two and 24 panels.
I have months of data from the systems.
I have found that running strings of two panels gives best performance and the solar charger works ok with the panels within a few volts of the battery. Have had 61 amps from the charger.
Losses are a big factor to think about, 4mm solar cable is not good enough a buss is needed I have a 90mm buss on the 20 panels and solar cable on the the one with 12 this has allowed me to see the loses in the 4mm cable and its affect on performance.

I have had no problems with voltage on the batteries and it seems to be charging correctly but I have set the voltages manually as the defaults do not match the battery specs.
Now the one draw back is that with the flooded T105s the unit is not capable of an equalization charge as they need 62volts but as this is done maybe once every six months I could take batteries off line and do this in sets for the 1000AH bank but would need to turn the T105 system off while I did it.

I have a solution to allow remote monitoring via TCPIP and Wifi connection to the units that uses power from the units with no modifications this does away with the USB serial cable.
I use VPN capable routers to link my networks over the internet.


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Post by paulvk » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 03:57

Keep away from those USB to serial cables when up loading to a micro controller.
Your symptoms are the cable dropping in and out of the system.
Try and find a computer with a real serial port, should be able to get one for free with XP on it.
I write software for Atmel AVRs on a windows 8 system and found that my old Prolfic USB to serial cable was stable after a lot mucking about and stopping windows from updating the driver Note its not suppose to work but it does.
Last edited by paulvk on Sun, 25 Oct 2015, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 26 Oct 2015, 04:09

Thanks, yes its a bit flaky. At times it will fail straght away others it will run a few %. Then it will say no connection.

Kurt


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