Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Specs.

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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Specs.

Post by E-STATION » Wed, 12 Jun 2013, 17:14


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Post by acmotor » Wed, 12 Jun 2013, 17:47

Truth in advertising takes several forms.

"The petrol engine is also used to charge the battery pack, as it does in the Holden Volt." Lets get that right... The Volt can use the petrol engine to keep the battery from going below the minimum operating charge level, but it cannot (disabled in software) actually 'charge' the battery from the petrol engine.
Joshua Dowling (the carsguide article writer) needs to understand that important point so as not to mislead the public.
As for the Outlander, I can't say, haven't seen that detail yet. It would be totally defeatest if it did charge the battery from the ICE. Know doubt you understand that point.

1.6l/100km for the first (is it) 80km according to some driving cycle test. The first 55km of which is off the battery . So is it 1.6l/100km for the full 880km ? Come on, get real.
The number of real interest is the fuel consumption after the 55km.

Truth in advertising, or perhaps in this case, journalism.

I like the series and parallel plug in hybrid in electric 4 wheel drive at a reachable price idea. Another step forward for EVs. (quite despite the downside of having to have an ICE) Image
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 13 Jun 2013, 05:42

Remember that I still scoff at 1.6l/100km when a pure electric like the iMiEV is more like 0.000714285l/100km of ATF. (0.75l in the gearbox, changed at 105,000km). You get the point. Image
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Post by g4qber » Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 14:07

Hmmm mitsu still sticking with 3.3kw charging
I guess this will be similar to the volt since it has petrol backup
Also possibly cheaper and maybe kinder to the batteries.
Chademo for fast charging

spark ev also has 3.3kw ac charging.

http://insideevs.com/plug-in-compact-co ... fiat-500e/

Fiat 500e has 6.6kw ac but no dc just like the honda fit ev
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 04:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 15:54

Keep in mind that 3.3kW represents a 15A outlet... and can also operate at 6-10A as well.
This is by far the most common domestic recharge option.
6.6kW is seriously uncommon (32A) socket/outlet/domestic setup so why would EV manufacturers go to the expense ?

After all, why have a 6.6+kW AC charger if you have a DC connector for 0-50kW ?
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Post by g4qber » Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 20:40

That's because dc charging is $$$

The charge point units installed at northside Nissan and magic Nissan are already 30a

E-stations current model also is 32a

The tesla roadster and model s supposedly come with a 32amp industrial plug

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 22:33

DC charging is expensive because present options are 30-50kW.
DC charging can be anything from 1W to 50kW so a 3.3kW DC charger could be much the same price as a present EVSE for AC charging.
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Post by Johny » Wed, 19 Jun 2013, 22:57

acmotor wrote: DC charging is expensive because present options are 30-50kW.
DC charging can be anything from 1W to 50kW so a 3.3kW DC charger could be much the same price as a present EVSE for AC charging.
Except that an AC charge station is just a glorified power point with some logic to say Yes you can or No you can't (for a given primitive request) - and half that logic is in the connecting device.

A DC station has to be able to provide various DC voltage levels and possibly end-of-charge currents to suit a wide range of vehicles. A pretty big ask. IMO The possibility of "cooking" a vehicle battery pack is way higher.

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Post by Tritium_James » Thu, 20 Jun 2013, 00:01

For DC fast charging, the vehicle controls the charger. So no dramas with cooking anything, if the vehicle detects the pack heating up it tells the charger to back off.

Standard Chademo spec is 50-500V, 0-125A, 50kW max (ie you get less than 125A current for voltages above 400V)

But the Outlanders they're bringing to Australia won't have fast charge on them. Speaking as a fast charger manufacturer, please call your local Mitsubishi dealer and complain! :)

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 20 Jun 2013, 01:59

Absolutely ! A DC connection for charging is the future.... not the onboard AC charger IMHO.
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 20 Jun 2013, 05:08

Just to clarify... I still want the onboard AC charger 10A/15A but for any more serious charging - do it all via the DC fast charging system.
Fitting a 6 / 8 / 10 / 20 kW onboard AC charger is kinda a waste of time.
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Post by g4qber » Fri, 21 Jun 2013, 00:32

there goes my order of the PHEV outlander; if it doesn't have chademo, then the deal is off.
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Post by coulomb » Fri, 21 Jun 2013, 02:16

g4qber wrote: ... if it doesn't have chademo, then the deal is off.

Don't tear up your cheque just yet; the third link in the original post (at least) says it has CHAdeMO.

Edit: oops, it speaks in the future tense, and now I recall that TJ has said the Australian version won't have it. Sigh.

I don't see why they would leave off such a thing. I mean, it's maybe $100 for the connector and the cable, and the rest is "just software" that they have already written for other markets.
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Post by jonescg » Fri, 21 Jun 2013, 03:42

I suspect your car might be a pile of rust before DC fast charging is available on our most common routes. For me, I think that up to 3.5 kW standard charging with the ability to upgrade to 7 kW (AC) is going to serve me well for 95% of my driving needs, with 50 kW DC charging for longer trips which happen twice a year. Those Currentways chargers are pretty space and weight efficient for what the are.
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Post by acmotor » Fri, 21 Jun 2013, 04:54

Looks like Oz will get a base model outlander without CHAdeMO.
The USA version will have CHAdeMO.
Chris may be right. No CHAdeMO is not the end of the world as there may be quite a lead time for DC fast charge (in Perth).

I would expect a lot more DIY and aftermarket to start up using the CHAdeMO DC connector though. It would be useful for PV etc direct feed to maintain true zero emission. Probably wasted on a hybrid though. Image
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Post by g4qber » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 00:46

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-re ... 6_20140321

outlander arriving March 31.

the John Hughes sales rep is going for a seminar this Wednesday.
He will let me know if it has Chademo.


Thinking out loud ...
I'm now thinking of getting one and then travelling at 19kmh below the speed limit for maximum economy (EV or otherwise). One is less likely to be bullied in an SUV than in the i-MiEV travelling at those speeds.
Or maybe I could get a Toll Electric Truck too. I wonder how much they cost, must give toll a call.

http://www.tollgroup.com/media-release/ ... tric-truck
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Post by acmotor » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 01:29

but what is this ....

" A console button-activated Battery Charge mode uses the petrol engine to restore 80 percent of charge in 40 minutes while stationary - burning about 3-litres of fuel in the process – which can also be put to use when on the move."

I guess it had to happen. I detect an environmental no-no though. Image

so 40km EV range (80% of ~52km) from 3 litres of petrol.   Thats 7.5 l/100km, not bad for an SUV

Mmmm, test drive anyone ?
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 03:01

I can get 7.5lt 100km in a 2.1 ton dual cab 3lt engine 4wd that's shaped like a brick with 3 trade roofracks and 265 wide aggressive 4wd tyres .

I could tow our imiev behind it in a trailer and still get under 10lt/ 100km Image is that a hybrid?Image

7.5lt isn't that good sorry Im not feeling the love for this thing.

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Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 25 Mar 2014, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 04:13

yes, but with an overall rating of 1.9 l/100km, as much as I cringe at hybrids, and with 1500kg towing capacity and AWD ..... I'm going to be looking. It ticks some serious boxes that most hybrids don't.
EV range with a 1500kg trailer on may be all of 10km.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 04:16

Hang on that 1.9lt - 100km consumption is just the first 100km of driving isnt it? one portion (40km?) of that 100km on the battery and the 2nd portion (60km)of the 100km on petrol combined = 1.9lt-100km. How about the next 100km once the battery is flat.

Or do I have it wrong and the combined consumption over its full maximum range using a full tank of fuel and the battery is 1.9lt - 100km?

Kurt

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Post by carnut1100 » Wed, 26 Mar 2014, 04:51

I'm watching this one with interest.....
While I am and always will be a fan of BEV first, there isn't an option that can tow a decent trailer at the moment, nor is there an AWD option which I would like as I live on gravel roads in area where we do get snow in winter...and with my partner's girls we already fill an iMiEV as it is, let alone if more kids come along down the track.
The Outlander PHEV ticks the boxes for me pretty much everywhere, as if I had one it would be running on EV mode 90% of the time anyway, and could replace the Hilux for trailer towing duty which is currently making me skip electric motoring three days a week, in summer I will be towing a trailer nearly every day.

No intention of getting rid of the iMiEVs, but down the track we might be looking at trading one of them for something like this...
Unless I satisfy my tinkering urges by getting a '90s Tarago AWD and converting it to twin motor EV........

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Post by woody » Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 04:03

offgridQLD wrote: I can get 7.5lt 100km in a 2.1 ton dual cab 3lt engine 4wd that's shaped like a brick with 3 trade roofracks and 265 wide aggressive 4wd tyres .

I could tow our imiev behind it in a trailer and still get under 10lt/ 100km Image is that a hybrid?Image

7.5lt isn't that good sorry Im not feeling the love for this thing.

Kurt


I'm guessing that you're cheating and using diesel instead of petrol?

(Diesel has 10% more energy in it than petrol if you plan to mix it with oxygen and turn it into water and CO2)
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 05:05

Yes diesle, but the point was it's a lot heavier and way leas aero with way bigger wheels and consumes similar numbers.

If you only want one car then perhaps but my view is for about the same cost you could have a economic diesle 4wd and a small bev like the Imiev.

Two dedicates machines rather than two comprimeses.

Kurt

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Post by Hippie403 » Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 13:24

I think the Outlander PHEV consumes about 5.4l/100km when running in
series hybrid mode. (saw those figures on a UK web site somewhere)
Quite economic for a 4WD SUV.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 13:30

So (series hybrid mode)I assume thats using the battery driven motor and the engine at the same time. So is that 5.4lt the consumption over the range of a full tank of fuel?

kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 04 Apr 2014, 02:32, edited 1 time in total.

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