iMiEV tyre wear status

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Kimball
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iMiEV tyre wear status

Post by Kimball » Wed, 10 Jul 2013, 04:34

Hi, AC, enjoyment of the driving experience when entering roundabouts might do it, that and hard left turns. Although I must confess the skinny fronts do not give me the confidence to chuck the i into a corner.
I usually wait until I am in a straight line before amping it, which I try to limit to once a trip. Last event was a Toyota land crusher nearly in my back seat as I tippy toed around an intersection. They really do seem to actually shrink in the rear vision mirror.
Keep thinking good thoughts - cheers Kim

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acmotor
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iMiEV tyre wear status

Post by acmotor » Wed, 10 Jul 2013, 07:42

At the 15,000km service the local mitsi dealer asked me if I wanted the tyres rotated.Image I laughed and said he was welcome to try and suggested that a side to side swap was all that could be offered. They didn't do that either in the end ! (either offended or confused perhaps)

The i did come back with a 'next oil change due at 30,000km' sticker on the top inside RHS of windscreen. Oh well... I guess there is a lot that will have to change in service departments. A fair bit of retirement for one thing. Image   

Those 145 fronts were chosen for a reason I guess. Maybe to look silly ? No, perhaps to limit power consumption by electric power steering or something. Anyway, they seem to do the job and the i is rather quick in the corners with its low COG and silent instant power. Most ICEs have to change down/kick down to exit with good power yet the EV drive train, in particular RWD, goes from controlled regen to full torque without any delay or effort. Its a driver's dream really.
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g4qber
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Post by g4qber » Wed, 10 Jul 2013, 08:39

watch out for a roadworks pothole under the city west bridge

the left tyres went completely into it
will see if there is any tyre damage tomorrow or flat tyres in the next week.
Last edited by g4qber on Tue, 09 Jul 2013, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 11 Jul 2013, 00:17

Just looking around as the replacement tyres question will come up in the future. Could be in less than 12 months....

Presently
fronts Dunlop Enasave 2030 145/65 R15
rears Dunlop Enasave 2030 175/55 R15

My local tyre shop over the phone says these are $218.70ea. F&B front and $214.30ea. F&B rear in same Dunlop 2030s. Both avail in Oz. So they are around. Would hope for a better price.

BTW, UK price is GBP 50.20 front and GBP 72.40 rear. I guess that makes up for their expensive fuel.Image

There is a temptation to go to 155/60 R15 on the front (not avail in 2030's though ?)
comparison here

Bridgestone ecopia isn't avail in < 175 width on web site.

Any other options ?
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Post by g4qber » Thu, 11 Jul 2013, 05:54

Checked pressures today. 33 psi all round. Pumped back up to 36 psi.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 07:05

Just checked tyres after 2 weeks, were set at 39psi.... now 38,38,39,38.
Set them now to 40psi.
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iMiEV tyre wear status

Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 07:11

Kmart online can do the above Dunlops for $196.

http://www.ktas.com.au/tyres/vehicles-m ... miev/2012/

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 07:17

Here's a list from a Euro on the myimiev forum:

In europe we have more than 10 different tire brand wich fit.

Front tire : 145/65R15 72 T

http://www.allopneus.com/find?activite= ... n=e&page=1

Rear tire : 175/55R15 77 T

http://www.allopneus.com/find?activite= ... n=e&page=1

Here is a short list :

Toyo Proxes NE
Hankook K425
Vredestein Quatrac 3
Yokohama A.Drive AA01
Bridgestone B340
Bridgstone Turanza ER300
Pirelli Cinturato P6
Continental Ecocontact 3
Michelin Energy XT1
Dunlop Enasave 2030
Goodyear Vector 5

Theses size also fit SMART fortwo and forfour

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 07:30

http://www.toyotires.eu/tire/pattern/proxes-ne

Quote from site:

In a World first, recycled polyester fibre is used in the manufacture of the tire casing.




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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 07:30

What about a 155/60 R15 upgrade for the fronts ?
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 17:57

Put some "fats" on :)
Going wider doesn't necessarily mean bigger "foot print" area on the ground.
The lower profile would give a harder ride also.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 15 Jul 2013, 01:07

It is just a cosmetic thing perhaps.
The present fronts are smaller than some motorcycles. (well they seem that way)

The profile number (65 or 60) is a ratio to tyre width and tyre specs show the 145/65 R15 and the 155/60 R15 have the same rolling diameter, they use same rim so thus profile is the same not lower.

I'd like to know the technical reason for the size choice by Mitsi.
Was it power steering energy consumption, rolling resistance, what was laying around the lab at the time ? It appears that tyre cost was not a justification.

The tyre size must be one of the narrowest chosen for a given vehicle weight since radial tyres were invented ?

edit: not complaining, just pondering the logic. Image
Last edited by acmotor on Sun, 14 Jul 2013, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Mon, 15 Jul 2013, 02:03

Image
Definitely an interesting one.
Maybe you nailed it with power steering reason.
Lower unsprung weight for handling??

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Mon, 15 Jul 2013, 02:20

Ones on the back needing to be wider due to weight?Not looking at it needing Skinnier ones on the front for any reason. Maybe if there was less load on the back they could be same size as the front ones?

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Post by Hippie403 » Mon, 15 Jul 2013, 02:26

The Rinspeed i-MiEVs have these wheels and tyres:

Front: Tyre 175/50/16 Wheel 16"/5.5"/ET 34
Back : Tyre 195/45/16 Wheel 16"/6.5"/ET 33

Make Work Japan, model schwert SC1 (SW1)

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Mon, 15 Jul 2013, 02:41

Rinspeed website has some good concepts/ideas.

I guess the 3 spoke mags are more aerodynamic than the multi spoke whilst still adding ventilation without going to a full disc on the MY12.
Wonder why the back wheels never got a wheel arch body cover for more aerodynamics? I guess to make it look "normal"

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 04 Aug 2013, 23:39

.
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 07 Aug 2013, 03:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by unheardofinstruments » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 04:07

I would be interested in some data on the amount saved using low rolling resistance tyres like the ecopia etc vs normal form a real world situation, ev range should be able to be substantially improved if the spiel is real.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 05:28

That might be hard data to get hold of.
I'm not thinking that the tyres would make even a few % difference. More than that would be wishful thinking. It must be hard to make tyres that actually work (rain, handling etc) yet provide low rolling resistance. Given too that rolling resistance is a small component of EV power consumption, actually reducing it by a few % is not likely to extend range by an amount I can see !
Compare the size of tyres on a volt with the tyres on an iMiEV. That tells me the tyres are not big players in range.
But yep, some concrete data would be interesting.

Ah good info on the tread depth.
So depending on how worn you are prepared your tyres to get (towards the wear indicators at 1.6mm)

fronts Dunlop Enasave 2030 145/65 R15
rears Dunlop Enasave 2030 175/55 R15

front at ~0km 6.2mm, at ~28,000km av. 4.1, min 3.5mm so 61,000km at must replace 1.6mm based on av. wear.   39,000km if based on worst wear so far.

rear at ~0km 7.2mm, at ~28,000km av. 5.2, min 4.4mm so 78,000km at must replace 1.6mm based on av.wear. 40,000 if based on worst wear so far.

I can see tyre shopping coming up !
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Post by unheardofinstruments » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 05:49

I thought kW/km was a readout? Wouldn't electric make seeing the difference easy? I had seen claims of 10% of rolling resistance so about 5% of drag at 80 so 21k instead of 20 better range is possible. They seem to work by reducing hysteresis losses by putting silicon in the rubber. The roll on test video I saw seemed to be substantially better. It would be good to know if there was a lot of brand to brand variability too. Efficiency counts.

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Post by Simon » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 06:05

On my Niki (not an iMiEV) I used to be able to goto work and back on 8.5Ah-10Ah until I got new tyres and now it is more like 12-13Ah! Image

The new tyres are 5mm wider though..

With the old tyres I could rely on using 0.75Ah/km hypermiling and with the new tyres it is hard to get below 1Ah/km.
Last edited by Simon on Sun, 04 Aug 2013, 20:07, edited 1 time in total.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 07:17

There is something in that Simon ??
Tyre (mis)alignment is amplified by increasing tyre width remember. Have you checked wheel alignment front AND rear ?? Is front too toed ?
There is a small rolling diameter difference between old and new tyres and if you change width did the rolling diameter change ? These could add up to a small apparent increase in energy as the km indicated on odometer changes or torque/current suffers a small increse if comparing same trip.

You really need to get used to talking Wh/km i.e. energy/km not Ah (although I guess you use an Ah counter ?) Without us, or you, knowing the realtime voltage involved it is hard to compare energy usage. e.g. lower temperature effects etc in winter.

This may be a good test ground (if you set up to read Wh/km plug to wheel). Do you have any spare rims ? Can you fit 'slicks' for a trial ?
The difference you observe so far is scary ! But I would expect it is more complex than just tyre construction.
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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 07:41

unheardofinstruments wrote: I thought kW/km was a readout? Wouldn't electric make seeing the difference easy? I had seen claims of 10% of rolling resistance so about 5% of drag at 80 so 21k instead of 20 better range is possible. They seem to work by reducing hysteresis losses by putting silicon in the rubber. The roll on test video I saw seemed to be substantially better. It would be good to know if there was a lot of brand to brand variability too. Efficiency counts.


Wh/km is usually a plug to wheel measurement representing the full energy cycle including recharge. It is usually measured externally (at least the Wh). Some EVs will display a Wh/km number but clearly not plug to wheel.

Agreed, efficiency counts. I am a skeptic though of 5 or 10% claims.
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Post by bladecar » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 15:00

Hi AC,

I really enjoyed your treatise regarding generators and ev's.

I was wondering if you would like to expound on a standard method (including specific instrumentation) in order for us all to discuss our various car's kW/km figure.

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Post by Johny » Mon, 05 Aug 2013, 15:18

Just on the LRR tyres issue. When I put the Vogue on the road as an EV the first thing I did was to have Hancook Enfren LRR tyres put on it. I had only driven it for about 60 km prior to that but my feeling is that there is some small gain from the LRR tyes but if my existing tyres were OK, I certainly would not spend money to change them over.
I think putting about 10% more air in standard tyres might get pretty close. I wish I'd collected more data but the tyres I had were pretty bad and a tad unsafe.

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