Help with Prius

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wheresmyEV
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Help with Prius

Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:13

Hi,
I'm having some issues with a prius someone may be able to answer.
The car stopped and displayed hybrid system fault.
It would only go as far as a few metres after trying a few time to get it to go again, and then would not do anything besides display hybrid system fault.
When I checked the fault code it said P3190.
I looked for this and someone had got fuel low (1 bar) and had the same problem.
Filling and clearing the code fixed it.
Mine was at 1 bar with about 25km to go, no warnings.
I put some fuel in and cleared the fault, but it doesn't seem to attempt to start the engine and just displays hybrid system fault. There are no error codes in it after that. Does it need the HV battery to start? Has it gotten too low to start it? If so how to charge it again? It's a Saturday so no help from Toyota today or tomorrow. Is their anyone else who can help? I'm in the Brisbane area.
It may be something else as p3190 indicates engine low power, but from fuel levels I suspect it may have been to low and the gauge is out.

Thanks

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evric
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Post by evric » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:36

What is the Hybrid battery level showing? Green, Blue?
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:38

it is down at one bar. I don't think it has colours does it?
It's not an I-tech.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:40

it is down to one bar, it doesn't have colours I don't think?
It's not an I-tech.
Thanks
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 21:50

I can't see the display any more for the warning message.
Is there any way to check through ODB2?
Thanks
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evric
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Post by evric » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 22:07

Have you got a Scan Gauge II or similar to clear the Hybrid error message?
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 22:11

I used torque light to clear the code and it did. However there is no new code (or the old one) being generated again. It is now not showing any fault codes.
Thanks
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Post by evric » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 22:19

My unit still clears error messages even if there are no codes. See if you have a "clear all codes"
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 22:30

torque has a clear fault codes button. I did that, the prius beeped a few times while it was doing it but the warning message remained on screen at all times, even after power cycle. It still returns no fault codes.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 23:13

Aux battery shows uo as 11.6V, SOC % is 25.1%.
VHB and VLB (volatge before and after boosting) are not showing up.
DC-DC converter is shutdown.
HBATT % is not showing up.
Are there any fuses that need checking for this fault?
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Post by evric » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 23:18

There is a fuse in the orange kill plug on the left (near side) of the main battery.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 23:20

I have checked the main orange fuse on the battery pack. It is still conducting and no signs of damage.
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Post by evric » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 23:24

I'm sorry, I don't any more ideas.
You may have to wait for Toyota to assist.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sat, 11 Feb 2017, 23:34

Yep, me too. This things a paperweight.
Thanks, Guess I shouldn't have brought a Prius.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 04:15

wheresmyEV wrote: Thanks, Guess I shouldn't have brought a Prius.

I think that might be a bit harsh. Hybrid batteries do wear out. Ours was deteriorating for years, but we could never get Toyota to admit it, and they would not consider a warranty replacement (back when it was less than 8 years old).

It's my wife's car, and she investigated the cost of a replacement hybrid battery. The price for a new battery was $3000, with $500 back for the old one. She thought that was reasonable, and had it replaced. It's been good ever since. We're organising a new covered carport to prevent the new battery from getting too hot. We suspect that parking it in the sun most of the time deteriorated it quicker than it should have. As it is, it lasted 9.5 years before replacement. The fuel saving compared to our ICE car makes it still worth while.

You do need the hybrid battery for to start the ICE. It sounds like the hybrid battery has failed. It is possible that the problem is merely corrosion of battery terminals and/or the copper strips connecting the modules; I never got the change to check my wife's Prius before they did the battery replacement.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 04:45

Well I certainly hope it hasn't worn out, it hasn't done many k's and the car is about 8 years old. It is however the first time I have had a car I can't fix myself. Perhaps if I get some better obd software I can find the other codes.
I've only had it about 1 1/2 years so the economy of an expensive fix will not be good. The sheer inconvenience of not being able to get your car going again is very frustrating, especially in the middle of a hot day with 2 kids. I think if this is not fixable by me then I will have no confidence in taking this car any appreciable distance. For the km of the car such a severe failure would be very unlikely with a regular car. Making your own EV would at least give you the comfort of knowing you can get it going again. Unless I can get a lot more info on fixing these cars I may not keep this one long. I was waiting for tesla model 3 but seems it might not last that long.
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Post by mjcrow » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 06:06

From the toyota files I have it looks like it is a problem with one of the following:-P3190 fault
Air induction system
Throttle body
Fuel pressure
Engine
Mass Air flow meter
Out of fuel
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Crankshaft position sensor
Camshaft position sensor
ECM

I have attached the relevant trouble-shooting file (it's for a 2004 prius but should give you somewhere to start, see page 3).cip3190a.pdf

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 14:36

mjcrow wrote: From the toyota files I have it looks like it is a problem with one of the following:-P3190 fault
...
Mass Air flow meter
...
On the NHW10 models (pre 2003 or so), the mass air flow meter was often a problem. I have not heard whether this continues into the later models, but it might be worth a look. I think often the thin wire carrying the bead would break, but that's from very weak memory. It could be worth investigating if you're mechanically inclined, and it sounds like you are.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 14:53

Yes I can check out a few of the items that don't require special tools.
FYI I am an electronic engineer, and did start out as an apprentice mechanic, and have built my own ECU's for ICE engine racing in the past. So my ego cannot cope with not fixing my own car ;).

Tried charging the aux battery but still no joy.
I only have a few crappy ELM327 interfaces which it seems will not go past the first ecu (I think it cannot handle higher baud rates). What is the cheapest hardware that is compatible with the prius to get the other layers of codes and settings?
Which software should I use?
Does anyone have a link to the actual commands (known ones at least) that can be sent just using a standard terminal program?
I'm assuming someone here has done this before doing conversions.
I think this will be a job for Toyota this time, but want to be prepared for next time if it fails for some reason. Also it would help to know this stuff for adding extra batteries and plug in charger.
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Post by wheresmyEV » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 20:37

FYI
For those interested it seems mini vci is the device to get.
Ensure you get firmware V2.0.4 or later else it won't do a lot of things. You will need to hack the drivers to get it to run on windows 10 or other 64bit OS, or use win xp if you can.
You should then have techstream access, note it still won't upgrade firmware on the ECU, for that you need the mongoose or real xhorse mini vci which is hard to get as most are copies, but who wants to do that anyway?? maybe just those wanting to roll your own firmware or otherwise hack the OEM firmware. I don't know where you would start to re write the entire code, so thinking there's not anyone crazy enough to do that.
Cheers
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Post by mjcrow » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 22:37

I use the vxdiag vcx nano for my volt, they also make one for toyota, they are a proper passthrough tool, so with the correct software they will allow ecu programming. They can also have their firmware upgraded. They go for around $100 AUD. Just my 2c

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Post by wheresmyEV » Sun, 12 Feb 2017, 22:42

Thanks,
but the 2004 model is very different.
MAF sensor: thermistor is about 26K , wasn't game to test voltage output as part number is different and thermistor at least does not match 2004 model.
Coolant temp: seems ok, read a value in expected range for the temp.
Crank shaft: under the car and it's on the street so can't get to it now.
Cam shaft: what I think is the Cam pos sensor is now 5 pins not 2.
throttle motor: can't find it, there is a multi-pin connector on one side of the throttle body assuming this is position sensor, and may be another on the other side but I'd have to pull stuff out to get to it.
Trottle pos: more wires than old one.
So in short I think I need actual data for the gen3 to do valid tests.
Where do you get the data from?
Thanks.
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Post by 85turbo » Sun, 12 Mar 2017, 22:24

one thing to be aware of, is if the 2nd gen prius runs out of fuel, and is continued to drive on the HV battery, it will cause this kind of behavior.

if it's out of petrol, and there are 3 attempt to restart the car, the system shuts off (to protect the HV battery i think).

have you tried disconnecting the aux 12v battery for 10 mins to see if that resets the code ?

also, 25% is WAY too low for the HV battery. the car will not be a happy camper with less than around 35%.

there are grid chargers (for the HV battery) available in the USA that you might want to investigate. have a look over on priuschat.com

loads of useful info and people there.

Jason.
2006 Prius plug in conversion

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Post by wheresmyEV » Mon, 13 Mar 2017, 15:49

Had to tow it back to toyota and they reset the codes and it would start again at 25%. Other forums note that 20% is minimum to attempt restart.
The main code I can see was reset but other Pruis specific codes I could not see.
I have a scanner now that should show all the toyota codes for next time something goes wrong. But the main issues is that the fuel guage is not accurate and can vary without any reason. This car has been used for about 1.5 years and it has always flashed or beeped on low fuel, and goes totally mental if you leave it too long. However on this occasion it was showing 1 solid bar (not flashing) with no warning beeps and 20+km left to go.
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Post by 85turbo » Mon, 13 Mar 2017, 16:47

Glad you got it sorted.

I usually fill up not too long after I get 2 bars left.
That way I'm in zero danger of running out. I usually get around 820km when there are 2 bars left.

Once my conversion is completed (hopefully next weekend)
I will be getting more like 1800km (or more) on the same amount of petrol.

Jason.
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